[Eddie]

Originally Posted by jester

Huh? When have I slighted or personaly or even intentionaly attacked you?

You never attacked me personally. But in post #27 you took a distinctly condescending tone about officers trying to do the right thing and likened it to micromanagement and not knowing their place. Then in a subsequent post, you lumped me into that category by asking how I was preparing my men to survive without me. Singly, either one is not bad and both are written in an dual-toned mannerism.

I even prefaced ALOT of what I said and tried to so in a comical manner using terms like "in the olden days." Lighten up! Don't take out whatever it is on me. If I were to attack or make infrences I would be direct. I haven't and never intended so please don't jump to conclusions.

You generalized a group of people of which I'm a part of. How does that not pertain to me? That's like me saying all NCOs are lazy or all Marines are robots.

You posted choke, gasp etc about putting words in your mouth. Don't do so here. Marines landed first. We were there for some time on two occassions before it went political and the UN went in. My unit alone had four drafts for personel to ship over. And I requested mast after the second. Please knock the chip off your shoulder. I was using that as an example of the times, to have been in uniform at that time, and be held in check. But also at a time when equipment was not being replaced or maintained, numbers were reduced and folks were having to do more with less. A freind of mine put it, "I served when clinton was in office, I've used duct tape to hold my equipment together." But, you failed to post the context in which the post was made as well, and then throw out names. Remember, freshman debate class. When you attack the oponenet directly you loose credibility. I have not started any venom, I asked some questions and you feel threatened? Dude, CHILL!

My pedigree was what? Huh? You asked if I was a Marine, I responded I was. I posted a time frame when I was in. As was posted earlier, different strokes for different folks. And that applies, different times and different units. Again, when did I prompt such an agressive response? Chill

And my point was that for you to spectate and speak about Mogadishu is about as potent as me to speak about it. I was in the Ranger Battalion that was involved in that incident. I name-dropped to point out to everyone that if we want to debate the BHD Incident, I can get the personnel involved in it on here. I speak to a bunch of them almost every day on Armyranger.com.

And I served in the Clinton Years as well, brother. I remember what it was like to go do a PLT LFX with 1000 rounds of live ammo for the whole PLT.

You misunderstood the point! Anything can happen. Can you plan and have your personel hump every item of kit for each and every possible situation that may go down? You know, the more you load your troops the slower they go, the more a chance of injury of your personel etc. And that is why I made an almost absurd example of cold weather gear in the desert, or a zodiak because there is a river in the area.

For the record, I was in Iraq and got snowed on. My point is that your strange variables don't exist in a vacuum. Other conditions have to be present for your crazy stuff unless the enemy has captured the HAARP Array. A Gore-Tex jacket isn't an anti-snow jacket, it's a cold weather jacket. If it's cold enough to snow, that means it's below freezing, right? Or at least close. Mitigate the risk.

Argumentatvie? I asked some questions simply that, and added "back in my day in the stoneage" Again trying to illustrate times and situations as well as organizations are different. As for officers, honestly, at this point, you are helping foster that idea. I am also thinking along the lines of obsesive and control from what you post here being so defensive, passive aggressive with me, and your posts about your control of your personel.

No, you didn't just start out posting simple questions. You posted how you browbeat and embarrassed officers into knowing their place essentially and now you are calling me obssessive and controlling for wanting to spot check and verify that my NCOs are doing the right thing. Why are NCOs above reproach? Can they not make mistakes and have bad days and just be idiots?

When have I said that I control my personnel? In combat? You never received orders to assault that building? You were never told to lay down a base of fire oriented from X to Y? Never assigned sectors of fire? Why is it an NCO's job, but an officer is micromanaging if he does it?

Dude, chill. I was really asking about the differences and such. I have not meant nor said anything as a personal attack. If it comes off that way, that was not the intent. Relax.

I've demonstrated with perardua that I'm not here saying one way is better than the other. But when I'm told that a guy bullies people into knowing their place because we have no business ensuring the safety of our people, and then that I hand hold and baby my people, yeah, I tend to get a bit defensive. I didn't realize I was being passive aggressive though.

No, I answered it above, but again the point and I am guessing it was missed. Clear the anger or idea I am attacking. I was trying to say, and you are a senior company grade, so you have a different view, so really I'd love to get a different perspective.

Alright, fair enough. I ask you to cease the snarky comments about LTs and officers knowing their place and sticking their noses where it doesn't belong until they get taught by an E.

An operation that was planned to last as a quick snatch and grab lasting no more than an hour in broad daylight, where it was not planned nor expected to turn into a long drawn out fight where you are surrounded and facing an entire town of hostiles. It wasn't planned, it wasn't expected, it wasn't prepared for. I mean, when you prep your personel for a "routine" patrol supposed to last for four hours or so, do you outfit them with enough ammo and other gear to sustain them for a week? But, as they say, shit happens.

Exactly. And the point is not to assume that anything is going to go smoothly and you'll be in and out in 10 minutes. Hope for it. But don't count on it. Because as a Senior Company Grade officer, it's my job to understand that the bad guy doesn't want you to accomplish your mission and he's going to find ways to take away the advantages that you have.

To be specific, a hour boots on the ground op. Do you equip them to have enough to sustain them for several days unsupported? Of course not.

What is the threat assessment? What is the enemy's historical pattern of attack? What kind of enemy am I facing? A group of hillbilly insurgents or the North Korean hordes waiting to cross the DMZ? What is their mission that requires them to "sustain for several days unsupported" if it goes south? A LRS team surveillance mission? A squad movement to contact? A platoon raid on a hajji house? Each one of those would be tailored to a different purpose, but all of them would have contingency planning involved. I can't say that it would be several days, a day, a week, or an hour without knowing more variables.

Do you have a thing against Marines?[/B]

Actually as a generalization, yeah, I don't get along with them well. As a generalization, Marines in my experience have tended to be loud-mouthed braggarts that would rather latch on to a fight like a pit bull than use their brain for more than a resting place for their high-and-tight.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the two Marine Captains that have been in my two small groups in the Career Course here. Had some good doctrinal debates with them and gotten a little insight into your doctrine as well as some of your pubs to go over and compare to ours.

But the groupthink of the Corp still irritates the shit out of me.