[Mohoender]

I have seen that this came on the spot but I agree with Chalkline and Targan, no one is supporting Hamas around here.

I have said that we avoided a genocide and I had good reason to say that even as it was slightly overstated. Just look at the figures given in the press (I know they are unreliable but they are what we have know). During the first three days of the offensive (as the world was still looking away) almost 400 Palestinians (mostly civilians) had been killed and 1300 had been wounded. Today (after 6 more days of fighting), 100 more Palestinians (mostly militia) had been killed and about 400 more wounded (strangely I bet that they are mostly militia as well). So, by the way, Targan talking about it has some purpose and it changes things as it forces leaders to get some sense of measure. I don't know what the true translation of it is in English but in French we use to say that "the worse is when people of good remain silent". I 'm not saying that the israelis would approve a genocide but they could have comit one by simply going too far, porbably trying to avoid their own casualties: no israeli soldiers had been hit during the first three days, 1 has been killed and 30 wounded since the ground attack started.

Raellus you asked if the Israeli government should have remained idle. Of course, the answer is NO. However, someone compare that to the situation in Northern Ireland and that might be a very good comparison indeed. Here in France, the Jewish representative council (not the Jews themselves) keep saying that no country would have endured what Israel did endure for 8 years without moving. I realize that it is false as England endured it for almost 50 years (including the bloody sunday of 1972). The British (no matter how brutal some might have been) never responded by an all out offensive on civilians. Else, when the second intifada started in 2000 (I think) many Jews who had survived the Nazis and the camps demonstrated in the streets. They were not demonstrating in support of Israel but with Palestinians in support of the Palestinian population (the POPULATION, not the Fatah or the Hamas). They were given very little audience but one of them compared what was happening in Israel to what the Nazi did to the jews during WWII (not talking of the holocaust of course but thinking of privation, yellow stars...). I don't think that anyone can qualify survivors of the Shoah to be supportive of terrorism.

Are there some other ways. Obviously YES and that is true even with terrorism around. Rabin proved it until he was killed (by a Jew). The task was far from over but things were under way and terrorism (if still very active) was more fledgeling than it is now. Of course, Hamas is a terrorist movements but we are talking to terrorist all the time and that doesn't always matter that much. In that case it sounds more and more as a false excuse used by both side: "we are not talking to Palestinians they are terrorists, we are not talking to Israeli's they are bombing us and assassinating our leaders, we are not talking to Palestinians they are throwing rockets, we are ending the cease fire the Israelis are not leveling the blocus...", and in the meantime kids, women, and men from both sides are killed almost everyday with no future to look at.

Again, as I said, it's easy to say from behind a computer desk. I also agree with Grim,we had said it all and it's time to go away from that subject. Let's now hope that it will end soon and that, at some point, a few among the Israelis and Palestinians will be brave enough to end this needless bloodshed.