[kota1342000]

Originally Posted by B.T.

Normally I do not participate on threads like this. Why? I'm German. Whenever you talk about such things, you're dancing on thin ice, if you're German. Some "wise guy" usually mentiones the war crimes of the Nazis, and that's the end to a lot of discussions.

BT, this is going to be highly subjective on my part, you gave me quite a bit to think about this week by writing this, and I was at a loss on what to say. But I think I may be able to scratch the surface by saying that many countries (including my own of course) have committed serious atrocities, and Germany during the 1930s and early 1940s is definitely not alone. The difference here is how each nation handles the legacy. For instance, in the United States any mention of treatment of the Indian Tribes that inhabited North America before we expanded (or we can go farther back too), and the treatment and slavery of Black people is branded as "reverse racism". Makes people not want to talk about it here, and its a form of bullying. For years in the Soviet Union, talking about Stalin's purges could get you shot in the back of the neck. Targan has already mentioned that Japanese know little of their nation's actions during the Second World War, and I think that's a symptom of the subject matter being left out of history texts.

But BT, Germany seems to me to be one of the cases where the people remember what happened and use the lessons to keep it from ever happening again. Most Germans that Ive spoken with tend to acknowledge the past of their nation and admit that it was a huge wrong turn in the road. But Germany today is one of the most respected members of the EU, and has provided assistance and help all over the international community in many different ways. My own personal experience comes from German companies' contributions to hazmat emergency response technology.

So IMHO, the way Germany views and handles the parts of their ugly history today is the standard that the rest of us should be trying to meet.

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

1) You are coming across very much as a troll trying to turn this, so far very civilised, thread into a flame war.

2) I find it strange that the ONLY person going on about anti-americanism is in fact an American. All the non-Americans participating in this thread are doing so ina rational, non-offensive manner.

During the American war of indepence, the Americans lost most of their battles against the British and yet still won the war. This theme is common in many wars in which one nation pursues military aims in another nation far from their home soil against a country in which they do not have support from the natives. Then again if politicians ever studied history before starting a war w'd be living in a blissful state of world peace right now.

First, VERY interesting you bring up us in this context, though these days I think the media has much more to do with how warfare turns out. But the American War isn't what people normally think of or discuss very much when talking about fourth gen warfare. Well played.

And second, I agree about you comments about the so called "anti-american" message. We have a lot of Americans that are on the side of being thin-skinned, thick-headed, and believe they have a monopoly on having been shot at or picking up pieces of friends. Its embarrassing. I was on the verge of losing my temper and wishing I had never read this thread until Webstral sent that last post and calmed me down. So thanks much Web.
But Legbreaker is right about this kind of subject not being off topic, its highly relevant to a military or post-apocalyptic game. I tend to lean towards story more than rules and modifiers, so this kind of situation can be instructive at the least. Its what separates table top roleplaying from computer games and adds complications. Not to mention Im a vet as well and I take a personal interest in what happens over there for several reasons. And hats off to Cdnwolf for having the courage to bring it up.

Originally Posted by simonmark6

I'm British and I love Americans...though I couldn't eat a whole one.

Well maybe if I was really hungry.

You need to find a good butcher that knows how to cut us up Simon. LOL