[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

The Soviets certainly had their Category C division equipped with AK-74s by the end of the Cold War. We don't really see footage suggesting otherwise and even during the low-budget phase of the 90s, there are hardly photos or videos depicting Russians in e. g. Chechnya using the older AKM. Remember, Category C or - using the newer and more adequate nomenclature - _ divisions were still "active" units, just cadered to a large degree.

Only mobilization-only divisions would not have received the Ak-74 by the late 80s.*

I hadn't thought about the rifles predominantly used by both sides in the Chechen wars but now that you mention it, I don't recall seeing many AKMs at all. It was mostly all AK-74s. Thanks for bringing up this point, Ursus.

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

It's more difficult with the Polish Tantal. Thought it's named "wz. 88" ("model 1988"), production only started in 1990 and troops received their first issues in 1991. From there, disarmament and peace dividend hit the Polish army fully, resulting in reduced production and a longer time for the weapon to permeate into all branches and units.

IRL, yes. I use the v1 timeline, which eliminates the "peace dividend" and allows for faster adoption of new weapons/replacement of old.

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

The second factor to keep in mind is that the Tantal is NOT an unlicensed copy of the AK-74. It is in fact built for the smaller caliber and cartridge of the AK-74 but technically based upon the AKM. I presume that was meant to circumvent licensing fees as well as giving greater autonomy to the Polish arms industry, something the Polish were keen on doing and pursued since the late 1950s.

I was aware that the Tantal was not a direct copy of the AK-74. However, it's not an entirely different weapon. Internally, the basic action is the same, and structurally it includes a lot of features from the Soviet rifle. That's why they look so similar (to a layman, indistinguishable). For example, even though the Tantal has a 3-round burst option (which AK-74s do not), the selector switch looks and operates just like that on the Kalashnikov. I lumped the Tantal in with non-licensed copies of the AK-74 because it is, after all, a 5.45x39mm weapon and my main point was that almost the entirety of the Warsaw Pact was shifting to that caliber for their assault rifles by the late 1980s (IRL).

Your suspicion is correct that the Poles developed the Tantal to avoid paying the licensing fee. They'd actually developed a much more original replacement for the PMK that used an entirely different caliber round but the Soviets put the kibosh on its adoption and insisted that the Poles use the 5.45x39mm round instead. The Poles caved to Soviet pressure, but not entirely, hence the Tantal.

I originally posted about this in the Best That Never Was thread.

Originally Posted by Raellus

Apparently, the Poles were working on a modular rifle system. It would have been able to fire multiple calibers (but mainly a proprietary 7x41mm round) with a few parts swaps, and could be configured as an assault rifle, mag-fed SAW, carbine, and battle rifle. The Soviets put the kabash on it, as they wanted the Poles to pay for the AK-74 license. Those clever Poles still figured out a way to do their own thing, developing, adopting, and producing the just-different-enough wz. 88 Tantal instead.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/pro...-ak-in-7x41mm/

Originally Posted by Ursus Maior

Why would the other Pact nations have no choice? The Warsaw Pact wasn't exactly a homogenous organziation?

I see your point. I probably overstated my case a bit, but I think that you overstate yours. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

The Warsaw Pact countries did have some freedom to develop and field their own homegrown armaments, but it was very limited. If push came to shove, the Soviets almost always got their way (see the example above about the Soviet-vetoed Polish modular assault rifle). Although there are a few exceptions to the general rule (the Romanian TR-77-580, the OT-64 SKOT), the general rule still stands. In most cases, the major weapons systems of the Warsaw Pact nations were either purchased directly from the Soviets or manufactured locally under license from Soviet proprietary designs. Warsaw Pact nations primarily relied on Soviet made or designed weaponry. Even though the Poles built and fielded their own SKOT, ZOMO formations still used the Soviet-built BTR-60. When a WTO nation stepped too far out of line, the Soviets could and did apply various kinds of pressure and, more often than not, the offending WTO nation would get back in line without much fuss. Every Warsaw Pact nation had Hungary, 1956 and Czechoslovakia, 1969 hanging over their heads like a Sword of Damocles. With that in mind, they would only push back so far.

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