Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987
If you want to get Putin to come to a peace agreement then I think the only way is 100% truth. Nothing more, nothing less.
|
Absolutely. Facts are equally important. Truth depends on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987
Ukraine had an elected government but that was ousted by a revolution, e.g. therefore the new government was not elected and therefore illegal.
|
This is false. I think you're referring to the 2014 Maidan "revolution". Those were pro-democracy protests. The Ukrainian regime at the time, led by a Russian puppet, ignored a national plebiscite that would have connected Ukraine's economy more closely to the EU than to Russia. He then brutally suppressed peaceful demonstrators in Kiev's Maidan Square. Eventually, he was driven from office (and fled to Russia, IIRC). Free elections were held in 2019.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487
If you're referring to the
postponed 2024 Ukrainian general election, then fair point. But to be fair to Ukraine, it's very difficult to have a legitimate national election when 1/4 of your country is under hostile foreign occupation, let alone during a war for national survival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987
In the areas now occupied by Russia the current government of Ukraine forbade the use of russian language and a short time ago they declared the orthodox church to be illegal.
|
To your first point, that was a
local government initiative, in response to similar Russian laws in occupied Ukraine. AFAIK, it wasn't a national law.
To your second point, there's a little more nuance to that law than your summary suggests.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ch-2024-08-20/
For whatever it's worth, I don't approve of either law.
However, I do think that it's worth mentioning that both of those laws were passed
AFTER Russia invaded and occupied parts of Ukraine proper in 2022.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneCollector1987
If I bring up this points I am always directly accused of being a Putin sympathizer.
|
I think your concerns regarding freedom of democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion in Ukraine are valid, and don't necessarily mean that you are a Putin sympathizer.
I do think there's a bit of false equivalency and "what-about-ism" in a lot of pro-Russian arguments. For example,
Quote:
Originally Posted by castlebravo92
Additionally, Ukraine is hardly a bastion of democracy. Just as corrupt and anti-democratic as Russia is.
|
Seriously?
-