View Single Post
  #220  
Old 04-21-2020, 10:34 AM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legbreaker View Post
I see you haven't watched the videos I suggested either then.
I watched the book review video, but you're right, it was so "hot take" (It could have worked but Americans!) and myopic that I didn't bother to watch the others.

Clearly, you haven't read any of the books mentioned.

Both Hastings (a Brit) and Ryan (a Brit) also conclude that XXX was Corps was slow. This argument is not exclusive to Beevor's book. It's not controversial, "hot take" Youtube videos notwithstanding.

But XXX Corps' leisurely pace can mostly be forgiven because the overall plan was so flawed. As Dragoon500ly pointed out, the highway to Arnhem was unsuitable for a rapid corps-strength advance. A single substantial delay anywhere along the line and the plan fails. To believe that every single unit involved would achieve their day one objectives without delay is quixotically naive. Monty should have known better. He probably did, but the pompous egotist was such a glory hound that he pushed ahead with it anyway. He deserves the lion's share of the blame.

And your Youtube historian gets so hung up on what did or did not happen at Nijmegan that he ignores a key military tenet (also he waffles about the 36 hour delay- his central argument- just before and after minute 14) central to the failure of Market Garden.

The absolutely critical tenet that he conveniently underplays is that it is nearly impossible to move a corps quickly down a single MSR without unsecured flanks against determined resistance. If he wants to blame Gavin for not capturing Nijmegan on day one, fine, but that's not the only reason that Market Garden failed; it's not the biggest reason that Market Garden failed. As Matt Wiser pointed out, the Dutch knew that the plan wouldn't work before the war. Quite simply, the plan was crap. And that's on Monty.

The notion that if there hadn't been a delay at Nijmegan (blame who you like), there wouldn't have been a delay elsewhere and Market Garden would have succeeded is indefensible.

Even if XXX Corps had reached 1st Parachute Division in Arnhem, the offensive would very likely have stopped/ended right there, with no strategic benefit to the Allies (besides a salient that led nowhere, as Dragoon500ly said). All the Germans would have to do is blow the bridge. The Germans had already demonstrated that they did not fear the push and were determined to stand and fight. XXX Corps, already at the end of its logistical tether, would not have been able to push on. The highway would have been vulnerable to being cut behind XXX Corps by the German forces bypassed along the flanks (you don't need "100 tanks" to do this). Adequate fuel and ammo supplies would not have been able to get to Arnhem, even had it been captured. The allied army was already running prohibitively low on both when the operation started, largely because Monty'd failed to secure Antwerp.

Monty sucked.

I suggest you read some books on the subject and then get back to me.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, and co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048

Last edited by Raellus; 04-21-2020 at 03:32 PM.
Reply With Quote