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Old 07-18-2019, 10:32 PM
RN7 RN7 is offline
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Looking over the Advent Crown article again I think there are a few issues. Some of these are left overs from V1 canon while others stem from the fact that GDW never really addresses the issues. Remember the original timeline for the entire War was just a few pages in the Director’s Guide.

First, France. The West German entry into East Germany with military force and then the revelation that the two Germanys were colluding to reunite by force would have appalled and panicked the French government. It would instantly vindicated the DeGaulle supporters and their wish to keep NATO at arm’s length. BUT I don’t believe for a minute that while they withdrew from West Berlin that they would hand any over portion of it to the Soviets or East German Loyalists. More likely a deal was made wherein the French left, with all of their equipment and vehicles, while it was agreed that no further British, American or especially German forces would enter the city to replace the French. It is very likely that even the rail and air corridors remained open for travel. The Soviets, being at war with China would be doing quite a bit to keep the US out of the fighting. The Americans and British would have stayed but now stuck with having to defend the old French sector as well.

Canon though says that the Soviets invade Norway in mid-November; almost a full month before the remaining NATO allies join the fighting in East Germany. This along with possible missile attacks against north European ports would have ensured that Denmark, Norway and Netherlands remained NATO members. Oddly though it is possible that Belgian or perhaps even French forces went into Norway as part of ACE Mobile Force. I have a write up somewhere with my ideas about that and will look for it.

As for Poland...there is no way in hell that even the most hawkish leaders of Britain, Canada and the US agree to shift the Polish borders eastward. The only plausible explanation beyond an over eager German commander completely ignoring stop orders...Germany and Poland made a secret deal where Germany got Stettin while post-war would support a transfer of the Kaliningrad Oblast to Poland during peace negotiations. If agents within the new German government slip this to the Soviets it would be more provocative than the old Zimmerman Telegram. It’s possible this combined with desperation may have triggered the use of tactical nukes with any German troops on Soviet soil.

Benjamin
The four Allied powers of the Second World War (Britain, France, USA, USSR) occupied Berlin as directed under the Potsdam Agreement of 1945, and even after the creation of West and Germany the four allied powers remained the ultimate political authority in both East and West Berlin until the reunification of Germany in 1990. In the T2K timeline this remained the situation until the end of 1997 after NATO forces occupy Berlin and drive the Soviets and remnant NVA out of the city.

When West German forces cross the Inter-German border in October 1996 the French left NATO and pulled their forces out of West Germany. Berlin is a separate case because both the West and East German governments has no recognised legal authority in Berlin, as the Potsdam Agreement gave each of the Allied powers ultimate legal responsibility over their own sector in Berlin. Later the Soviet's tried to give East Germany some legal powers in East Berlin and even allowed them to make East Berlin their capital. Britain, France and America never officially recognised East German authority in East Berlin and would officially only deal with the Soviets. East German military forces were not allowed into East Berlin, but the Soviets did allow them to enter the city for propaganda purposes during parades etc to annoy the Western Allies.

From October to December 1996 Berlin is basically a no fire zone. West German forces will not attack US, British, French and Soviet forces in Berlin or any of their aircraft along the air corridors out of Berlin for fear of reprisals. However once other NATO powers joins the Germans and cross into East Germany in December 1996 the French are placed in a very awkward position. They are now the only Allied power (of the WW2 Allies) that are neutral in the conflict and French forces in West Berlin are cut off.

From a military position French forces in West Berlin have no hope of support or relief. Politically once they leave Berlin the French are relinquishing their legal authority over their sector. But with NATO advancing on Berlin and the Soviets and loyalist NVA set to heavily resist the French situation in Berlin is now a lost cause. The Soviets will allow them to leave as they are no longer in NATO, but although its easy to air lift French personnel and some light vehicles from Berlin how do you transport tanks with the C-160 Transall? The C-160 is smaller than a C-130 and that's all the French Air Force used at this time? The USAF is not going to lend their C-5 Galaxy to the French and fly them into a hot zone like Berlin, and no commercial cargo operator is going to allow their Boeing 747F cargo planes either. What happens to the French sector once they leave is open to speculation. The American and British garrisons have their hands full in their own sectors and are cut off from other NATO forces until the end of December.


About the Polish border and the occupation of former German territory by German troops. Well I think I'm the only one pushing this so if you don't think it could happen that's absolutely fine with me.

However in T2K the German militaries united their country right under the noses of their own governments and their NATO and Warsaw Pact allies. They fought the Soviets in East Germany for two months on their own, and then sent their forces into Austria in the summer of 1997 after the Italians and Czechs attacked Austria and Bavaria. What is left of the Austrian Army has now largely been integrated into the German Army and the Germans are occupying large parts of Poland.

I would have the German land grab happening post-2000 and after Operation Omega. Who is going to stop the Germans from incorporating parts of Poland back into Germany?

The Poles?!!!?

The Soviets won't like it but they have used nuclear weapons against Germany and all of her allies so the Germans wont give a fig what the Soviets think. Also the Soviets are not going to use what's left of their nuclear arsenal in Poland as the official Polish government (what's left of it) is still an ally. The Soviet Army is also shot to pieces and in no state to take on the Germans in Western Poland. The commanders of Soviet divisions still in Poland would probably not even obey their orders.

The Americans are in the same position plus their government has split into two factions. CivGov might object but they have no power in Europe. The Germans are an ally of MilGov so no comment here. The British are in much the same position and will probably do the same as MilGov.

The French might object but they are occupying the German Rhineland so you can imagine what the Germans will tell the French to go and do with themselves

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