(resurrected from the archive - kato13)
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graebardeII
Naval War Starting Questions
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Last evening I started listing all USN vessels. Criteria was any vessel still in service 1989-1990, and any vessel built before 1998. This got me to thinking, which can be dangerous, because then I don't sleep well with the brain in gear.
Reagan's goal was a 600-ship navy, and the US was pretty close to that when the wall came down. With the wall never coming down, there would (IMO) not be a rush to decommission many of the vessels. Therefore I propose those vessels decommissioned on/after 1989 would remain in service at least another 6 years. Most of these vessels were only 25-30 years old when they went to mothballs, were sold off, scraped, or what-ever in the 89-90 timeframe. At the very least they would be reserve fleet minimal manned IMO. If I recall, the Navy was not suffering too badly for manning in the Cold War era.
graebardeII
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Grimace
Jack of all trades & sometime babbler of nonsense
Hey, since you're making that list, would you mind sharing it? Pretty please!
__________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" -- Adam; Mythbusters
Grimace
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DeaconR
I'd like to see more on joint task forces and the like. I'd like to get some idea of what the present order of battle of the fleets would be.
DeaconR
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graebardeII
US Naval Vessels pt1
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Port code:
PEN Pensacola FL
YOK Yokosuka Japan
NOR Norfolk VA
MAY Mayport FL
SDG San Diego CA
BRM Bremerton WA
EVT Everett WA
LBE Long Beach CA
PHB Pearl Harbor HI
PAS Pascagoula MS
GAE Gaeta Italy
CHA Charleston SC
SUB Subic Bay Philippine Islands
ALM Alameda CA
NPT Newport RI
PHL Philadelphia PA
SNF San Francisco CA
BOS Boston MA
SEA Seattle WA
HON Honolulu HI
PSM Portsmouth VA
NBF New Bedford MA
KEY Key West FL
PNH Portsmouth NH
WIL Wilmington NC
PAT Patrick AFB FL
PAW Port Angeles WA
SPB St Petersburg FL
MIA Miami Beach FL
PCF Panama City FL
GAL Galveston TX
CMY Cape May NJ
KOD Kodiak AK
KET Kechikan AK
LCR Little Creek VA
SAS Sasebo Japan
ING Ingleside TX
Class/Hull NAME Svc Home
Carriers
CVT16 LEXINGTON 43 91 PEN
CV 41 MIDWAY 45 92 YOK
CV 43 CORAL SEA 47 90 NOR
CV 59 FORRESTAL 55 93 PEN
CV 60 SARATOGA 56 94 MAY
CV 61 RANGER 57 93 SDG
CV 62 INDEPENDENCE 59 00 YOK
CV 63 KITTY HAWK 61 00 YOK
CV 64 CONSTELLATION 61 00 SDG
CVN65 ENTERPRISE 61 00 NOR
CV 66 AMERICA 69 00 NOR
CV 67 JOHN F. KENNEDY 68 00 MAY
CVN68 NIMITZ 75 00 SDG
CVN69 DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER 77 00 NOR
CVN70 CARL VINSON 82 00 BRM
CVN71 THEODORE ROOSEVELT 86 00 NOR
CVN72 ABRAHAM LINCOLN 89 00 EVT
CVN73 GEORGE WASHINGTON 90 00 NOR
CVN74 JOHN C. STENNIS 95 00 SDG
CVN75 HARRY S. TRUMAN 98 00 NOR
Battleships
BB61 IOWA 43 90 NOR
BB62 NEW JERSEY 43 91 LBE
BB63 MISSOURI 43 92 LBE
BB64 WISCONSIN 44 91 NOR
Cruisers
CGN9 LONG BEACH 61 95 SDG
CG 16 LEAHY 62 93 SDG
CG 17 HARRY E. YARNELL 63 93 NOR
CG 18 WORDEN 63 93 PHB
CG 19 DALE 63 94 MAY
CG 20 RICHMOND K. TURNER 64 95 PAS
CG 21 GRIDLEY 63 94 SDG
CG 22 ENGLAND 63 94 SDG
CG 23 HALSEY 63 94 SDG
CG 24 REEVES 64 93 YOK
CGN25 BAINBRIDGE 62 96 NOR
CG 26 BELKNAP 64 95 GAE
CG 27 JOSEPHUS DANIELS 65 94 NOR
CG 28 WAINWRIGHT 66 93 CHA
CG 29 JOUETT 66 94 SDG
CG 30 HOME 67 94 LBE
CG 31 STERETT 67 94 SUB
CG 32 WILLIAM H. STANDLEY 66 94 SDG
CG 33 FOX 66 94 SDG
CG 34 BIDDLE 67 93 NOR
CGN35 TRUXTUN 67 95 SDG
CGN36 CALIFORNIA 74 98 BRM
CGN37 SOUTH CAROLINA 75 98 NOR
CGN38 VIRGINIA 76 94 NOR
CGN39 TEXAS 77 93 ALM
CGN40 MISSISSIPPI 78 97 NOR
CGN41 ARKANSAS 80 97 BRM
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Last edited by graebardeII : 01-22-2006 at 01:45 PM.
graebardeII
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chico20854
This is an extract of my Escort Orbat, stripping out foreign and fantasy shipbuilding program ships, which includes all US Navy and Coast Guard major surface combatants in the fleet in the late 1980s, scheduled to be built in the 1990s according to 1987 plans, or still in Navy custody in 1992.
I've set up a work group at:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/t2knavalwar/
I've made posting members only to keep spammers at bay...
-Chico
Attached Files USN & USCG 1990s ColdWar.doc (81.5 KB, 33 views)
chico20854
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graebardeII
US Navy pt2
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Class/Hull NAME Svc Home
Cruisers
CG 47 TICONDEROGA 83 00 PAS
CG 48 YORKTOWN 84 00 PAS
CG 49 VINCENNES 85 00 YOK
CG 50 VALLEY FORGE 86 00 SDG
CG 51 THOMAS S. GATES 87 00 PAS
CG 52 BUNKER HILL 86 00 SDG
CG 53 MOBILE BAY 87 00 SDG
CG 54 ANTIETAM 87 00 SDG
CG 55 LEYETE GULF 87 00 NOR
CG 56 SAN JACINTO 88 00 NOR
CG 57 LAKE CHAMPLAIN 88 00 SDG
CG 58 PHILIPPINE SEA 89 00 MAY
CG 59 PRINCETON 89 00 SDG
CG 60 NORMANDY 89 00 NOR
CG 61 MONTEREY 90 00 NOR
CG 62 CHANCELLORSVILLE 89 00 YOK
CG 63 COWPENS 91 00 YOK
CG 64 GETTYSBURG 91 00 MAY
CG 65 CHOSIN 91 00 PHB
CG 66 HUE CITY 91 00 MAY
CG 67 SHILO 92 00 SDG
CG 68 ANZIO 92 00 NOR
CG 69 VICKSBURG 92 00 MAY
CG 70 LAKE ERIE 93 00 PHB
CG 71 CAPE ST. GEORGE 93 00 NOR
CG 72 VELLA GULF 93 00 NOR
CG 73 PORT ROYAL 94 00 PHB
Destroyer
DDG37 FARRAGUT 60 89 NOR
DDG38 LUCE 61 91 MAY
DDG39 MACDONOUGH 61 92 CHA
DDG40 COONTZ 60 89 NOR
DDG41 KING 60 91 NOR
DDG42 MAHAN 60 93 CHA
DDG43 DAHLGREN 60 92 NOR
DDG44 WILLIAM B. PRATT 61 91 CHA
DDG45 DEWEY 59 90 CHA
DDG46 PREBLE 60 91 NOR
DDG51 ARLEIGH BURKE 91 00 NOR
DDG52 BARRY 92 00 NOR
DDG53 JOHN PAUL JONES 93 00 SDG
DDG54 CURTIS WILBUR 94 00 YOK
DDG55 STOUT 94 00 NOR
DDG56 JOHN S. MCCAIN 94 00 YOK
DDG57 MITSCHER 94 00 NOR
DDG58 LABOON 95 00 NOR
DDG59 RUSSELL 95 00 PHB
DDG60 PAUL HAMILTON 95 00 PHB
DDG61 RAMAGE 95 00 NOR
DDG62 FITZGERALD 95 00 YOK
DDG63 STETHEM 95 00 SDG
DDG64 CARNEY 96 00 MAY
DDG65 BENFOLD 96 00 SDG
DDG66 GONZALEZ 96 00 NOR
DDG67 COLE 96 00 NOR
DDG68 THE SULLIVANS 97 00 MAY
DDG69 MILIUS 96 00 SDG
DDG70 HOOPER 97 00 PHB
DDG71 ROSS 97 00 NOR
DDG72 MAHAN 98 00 NOR
DDG73 DECATUR 98 00 SDG
DDG74 MCFAUL 98 00 NOR
DDG75 DONALD COOK 98 00 NOR
DD963 SPRUNCE 75 00 MAY
DD964 Paul F. Foster 76 00 EVT
DD965 KINKAID 76 00 SDG
DD966 HEWETT 76 00 YOK
DD967 ELLIOT 77 00 SDG
DD968 ARTHUR W. RADFORD 77 00 NOR
DD969 PETERSON 77 00 NOR
DD970 CARON 77 00 NOR
DD971 DAVID R. RAY 77 00 EVT
DD972 OLDENDORF 78 00 SDG
DD973 JOHN YOUNG 78 00 SDG
DD974 COMTE DE GRASSE 78 00 NOR
DD975 O’BRIEN 77 00 YOK
DD976 MERRILL 78 00 SDG
DD977 BRISCOE 78 00 NOR
DD978 STUMP 78 00 NOR
DD979 CONOLLY 78 00 MAY
DD980 MOOSBRUGGER 78 00 MAY
DD981 JOHN HANCOCK 79 00 MAY
DD982 NICHOLSON 79 00 MAY
DD983 JOHN RODGERS 79 00 MAY
DD984 LEFTWICH 79 00 PHB
DD985 CUSHING 79 00 YOK
DD986 HARRY W. HILL 79 00 SDG
DD987 O’BANNON 79 00 MAY
DD988 THORN 80 00 NOR
DD989 DEYO 80 00 NOR
DD990 INGERSOLL 80 00 PHB
DD991 FIFE 80 00 EVT
DD992 FLETCHER 80 00 PHB
DDG993 KIDD 81 98 XXX
DDG994 CALLAGHAN 81 98 EVT
DDG995 SCOTT 81 98 MAY
DDG996 CHANDLER 81 98 EVT
DD997 HAYLER 83 00 NOR
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Last edited by graebardeII : 01-22-2006 at 09:34 AM.
graebardeII
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chico20854
Updated to break them into fleets...
Now I'll have to combine/compare to Grae's...
Attached Files USN & USCG 1990s ColdWar rev1.doc (47.0 KB, 27 views)
chico20854
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graebardeII
When I get home from work, I'll join the yayhooz group, and place the list to the files section there. Unfortunately we're not able to work in the groups while at work. However I do have time to get other factors done. I'll continue the lists with the frigates, then move into the other vessels as I find the information I'm seeking. The archaic 'puter at work does not cooperate on all aspects of my searching unfortunately.
My source btw, to give credit where credit is due to a fine site IMO, is:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/
grae
graebardeII
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graebardeII
Early Commissioning
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Point of clarification on the lists I'm posting. The vessels in itallics are on the way when the war begins. I'm wondering if they couldn't have been commissioned early. War has a way of speeding up production. Most are with in less than 18 months of commissioning.
grae
graebardeII
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graebardeII
US Navy pt3
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Class/HULL NAME Svc Home
Frigate
FF1037 BRONSTEIN 63 90 SDG
FF1038 MCCLOY 63 90 NOR
FF1040 GARCIA 64 89 XX
FF1041 BRADLEY 65 88 XX
FF1043 EDWARD MCDONNELL 65 88 XX
FF1044 BRUMBY 65 89 XX
FF1045 DAVIDSON 65 88 XX
FF1047 VOGUE 66 89 XX
FF1048 SAMPLE 68 88 XX
FF1049 KOELSCH 67 89 XX
FF1050 ALBERT DAVID 68 89 XX
FF1051 O’CALLAHAN 68 88 XX
FF1052 KNOX 69 92 LBE
FF1053 ROARK 69 91 SNF
FF1054 GRAY 70 91 SNF
FF1055 HEPBURN 69 91 SDG
FF1056 CONNOLE 69 92 NPT
FF1057 RATHBURN 70 92 PHB
FF1058 MEYERKORD 69 91 SDG
FF1059 W. S. SIMS 70 91 MAY
FF1060 LANG 70 91 SFN
FF1061 PATTERSON 70 91 PHL
FF1062 WHIPPLE 70 92 PHB
FF1063 REASONER 71 93 SDG
FF1064 LOCKWOOD 70 93 LBE
FF1065 STEIN 72 92 SDG
FF1066 MARVIN SHIELDS 71 92 SDG
FF1067 FRANCIS HAMMOND 70 92 LBE
FF1068 VREELAND 70 92 NOR
FF1069 BAGLEY 72 91 SDG
FF1070 DOWNES 71 92 SDG
FF1071 BADGER 70 91 PHB
FF1072 BLAKELY 70 91 CHA
FF1073 ROBERT E. PERRY 72 92 PHB
FF1074 HAROLD E. HOLT 71 92 PHB
FF1075 TRIPPE 70 92 NPT
FF1076 FANNING 71 93 SDG
FF1077 OUELLET 70 93 PHB
FF1078 JOSEPH HEWES 71 94 CHA
FF1079 BOWEN 71 94 NOR
FF1080 PAUL 71 92 MAY
FF1081 AYLWIN 71 92 NPT
FF1082 ELMER MONTGOMERY 71 93 MAY
FF1083 COOK 71 92 SDG
FF1084 MCCANDLESS 72 94 NOR
FF1085 DONALD B. BEARY 72 94 NOR
FF1086 BREWTON 72 92 PHB
FF1087 KIRK 72 93 LBE
FF1088 BAREY 72 92 SDG
FF1089 JESSE L. BROWN 73 94 CHA
FF1090 AINSWORTH 73 94 NOR
FF1091 MILLER 73 91 NPT
FF1092 THOMAS C. HART 73 93 NOR
FF1093 CAPODANNO 73 93 NPT
FF1094 PHARRIS 74 92 NOR
FF1095 TRUETT 74 94 NOR
FF1096 VALDEZ 74 91 NPT
FF1097 MOINESTER 74 94 NOR
FF1098 GLOVER 65 90 BOS
graebardeII
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shrike6
Grae,
Any reason you omitted the Ayatollah-class DDGs?
DDG993 Kidd 81 98 XXX
DDG994 Callaghan 81 98 EVT
DDG995 Scott 81 98 MAY
DDG996 Chandler 81 98 EVT
Also have you cross checked your list with other sources alot of those Frigates you list were sold or leased to other countries in the mid 90s before the war?
__________________
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Last edited by shrike6 : 01-21-2006 at 08:14 PM.
shrike6
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graebardeII
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrike6
Grae,
Any reason you omitted the Ayatollah-class DDGs?
DDG993 Kidd 81 98 XXX
DDG994 Callaghan 81 98 EVT
DDG995 Scott 81 98 MAY
DDG996 Chandler 81 98 EVT
Also have you cross checked your list with other sources alot of those Frigates you list were sold or leased to other countries in the mid 90s before the war?
|
I'm still working on the list. I think these DDG's however were over-looked, as I'm working the frigates now, but I will double check the list. Thanks for the heads up.
No, I have NOT cross checked the list as yet. As for sold-leased in the mid-90s, that is the what were working at. Your info is RL based on with the wall coming down in 89-90. In the scenario we're working on (at lease what I THINK we are) is v1, where the wall stayed up. As I asked in the first post of this thread, would the US dispose of these vessels had the wall not come down, and Cold War continued? The reason they were sold-leased was the great beating of 'swords into plowshares' when 'peace broke out' and the 'walls came tumbling down'. Personally I do not think they would have if the US was to maintain their 600 ship fleet. As I said, these vessels were mostly under 30 years old and still serviceable. Granted SOME of the oldest may have been sold-leased, but that is a question we have to discuss.
Grae.
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Last edited by graebardeII : 01-21-2006 at 10:32 PM.
graebardeII
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shrike6
I'll refrain from asking anymore questions then until you guys have completed your work then.
__________________
shrike6
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graebardeII
Questions are always welcome, but as I said the list is still being compiled. By tomorrow eve, with luck, I shall have completed the frigates list, which comprises the single largest group of vessels. I'm sure you'd be welcome at the projects work site.
Sorry if I seemed short. Looking at what I wrote it seemed that way, but that is not the way I intended. It's a work in progress, and without proof readers, omissions, as already pointed out, will undoubtedly be made.
As there are numerous navies in this project, persons with knowledge of any navies, and their operational doctrine, will greatly help the project. I can count beans, but doctrine is vague not being a blue-water sailor. I was Army.
Grae
graebardeII
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boogiedowndonovan
Hey Grae,
good stuff, I know you're still working on the list, but I think I found an error.
Shouldn't CVN70 CARL VINSON should be homeported at Alameda, CA, not Bremerton, WA. IRL, ALM closed because of the post-cold war draw down, and closed in 1997. In T2K, ALM would still be open. (Matt Wiser, check me on this)
By the way, are you concentrating on combat ships only? Or will you list amphibs, fleet support ships, etc?
globalsecurity.org is a good site, have you seen this one?
http://www.hazegray.org/
boogiedowndonovan
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Matt Wiser
If there had been no BRAC process (if the Wall hadn't come down), Alameda would certainly be still open. VA-304 (USN reserve with A-6Es and KA-6Ds) was the only squadron based there, but it was a carrier home port. One can see a continuance of the Reagan-era buildup into the 1990s up until the Sino-Soviet War begins. Then one would expect SECDEF and JCS starting to dust
off contingency plans to get ships out of mothballs, ID'ing reservists who would be called up first, etc. In my T2K timeline, I have the A-6F and F-14D
programs still going (axed in 1988 and 1992, respectively), and speed-up of
building Burke-class DDGs and Seawolf-class SSNs, along with the six unbuilt
Ohio-class SSBNs.
Matt Wiser
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graebardeII
1. Yes I intend to post the rest of the fleet as I get them keyed.
2. Yep, familiar with hazegray.
3. The first assumption we're making is the Cold War continues, there was not a reduction in the fleet, and very few installations were shutdown from 1989 onward. It's as Matt suggests. Only those vessels too old to function well are sold-scrappped.
4. I'm using the homeports shown in globalsecurity, however I know they will be adjusted some, such as you mention with Vinson.
Thanks for the inputs.
Grae
graebardeII
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graebardeII
US Navy pt4
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Class/HULL NAME Svc Home
FFG 1 BROOKE 67 89 XX
FFG 2 RAMSEY 67 89 XX
FFG 3 SCHOFIELD 68 89 XX
FFG 4 TALBOT 67 89 XX
FFG 5 RICHARD L. PAGE 67 89 XX
FFG 6 JULIUS A. FURER 67 89 XX
short Perry
FFG 7 OLIVER HAZARD PERRY 77 97 MAY
FFG 9 WADSWORTH 80 00 SDG
FFG10 DUNCAN 80 94 LBE
FFG11 CLARK 80 00 NOR
FFG12 GEORGE PHILIP 80 00 SDG
FFG13 SAMUEL ELIOT MORISON 80 00 MAY
FFG14 SIDES 81 00 SDG
FFG15 ESTOCIN 81 00 NOR
FFG16 CLIFTON SPRAGUE 81 95 PHL
FFG19 JOHN A. MOORE 81 00 SDG
FFG20 ANTRIM 81 96 MAY
FFG21 FLATLEY 81 96 MAY
FFG22 FAHRION 82 98 MAY
FFG23 LEWIS B. PULLER 82 98 SDG
FFG24 JACK WILLIAMS 81 96 MAY
FFG25 COPELAND 82 96 SDG
FFG26 GALLERY 81 96 MAY
FFG27 MAHLON S. TISDALE 82 96 SDG
FFG30 REID 83 98 SDG
FFG31 STARK 82 99 MAY
FFG34 AUBREY 82 99 MAY
long Perry
FFG 8 MCINERNEY 79 00 MAY
FFG28 BOONE 82 00 MAY
FFG29 STEPHEN W. GROVES 82 00 PAS
FFG32 JOHN L. HALL 82 00 PAS
FFG33 JARRETT 83 00 SDG
FFG36 UNDERWOOD 83 00 MAY
FFG37 CROMMELIN 83 00 PHB
FFG38 CURTS 83 00 SDG
FFG39 DOYLE 83 00 MAY
FFG40 HALYBIRTON 84 00 MAY
FFG41 MCCLUSKY 83 00 SDG
FFG42 KLAKRING 83 00 MAY
FFG43 THACH 84 00 SDG
FFG45 DEWERT 83 00 MAY
FFG46 RENTZ 84 00 SDG
FFG47 NICHOLAS 84 00 NOR
FFG48 VANDEGRIFT 84 00 YOK
FFG49 ROBERT G. BRADLEY 84 00 MAY
FFG50 TAYLOR 84 00 MAY
FFG51 GARY 84 00 YOK
FFG52 CARR 85 00 NOR
FFG53 HAWES 85 00 NOR
FFG54 FORD 85 00 EVT
FFG55 ELROD 85 00 NOR
FFG56 SIMPSON 85 00 MAY
FFG57 REUBEN JAMES 86 00 PHB
FFG58 SAMUEL B. ROBERTS 86 00 NOR
FFG59 KAUFFMAN 87 00 NOR
FFG60 RODNEY M. DAVIS 87 00 EVT
FFG61 INGRAHAM 89 00 EVT
graebardeII
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graebardeII
Uscg
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378ft BUILT: 67-72
WHEC 715 HAMILTON SDG
WHEC 716 DALLAS CHA
WHEC 717 MELLON SEA
WHEC 718 CHASE SDG
WHEC 719 BOUTWELL ALA
WHEC 720 SHERMAN ALA
WHEC 721 GALLATIN CHA
WHEC 722 MORGENTHAU ALA
WHEC 723 RUSH HON
WHEC 724 MUNRO ALA
WHEC 725 JARVIS HON
WHEC 726 MIDGETT SEA
270ft BUILT: 83-88
WMEC 901 BEAR PSM
WMEC 902 TAMPA PSM
WMEC 903 HARRIET LANE PSM
WMEC 904 NORTHLAND PSM
WMEC 905 SPENCER BOS
WMEC 906 SENECA BOS
WMEC 907 ESCANABA BOS
WMEC 908 TAHOMA NBF
WMEC 909 CAMPBELL NBF
WMEC 910 THETIS KEY
WMEC 911 FORWARD PSM
WMEC 912 LEGARE PSM
WMEC 913 MOHAWK KEY
WMEC 615 RELIANCE PNH 210ft 66-69
WMEC 616 DILIGENCE WIL
WMEC 617 VIGILANT PAT
WMEC 618 ACTIVE PAW
WMEC 619 CONFIDENCE PAT
WMEC 620 RESOLUTE SPB
WMEC 621 VALIANT MIA
WMEC 622 COURAGEOUS PCF
WMEC 623 STEADFAST WAR
WMEC 624 DAUNTLESS GAL
WMEC 625 VENTUROUS SPB
WMEC 626 DEPENDABLE PSM
WMEC 627 VIGOROUS CMY
WMEC 628 DURABLE SPB
WMEC 629 DECISIVE PAS
WMEC 630 ALERT WAR
230ft BUILT: 42
WMEC 38 STORIS KOD
213ft BUILT: 44
WMEC 167 ACUSHNET KET
BUILT: 71-96
ATS 1 EDENTON XX
ATS 2 BEAUFORT XX
ATS 3 BRUNSWICK XX
graebardeII
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graebardeII
Amphibs
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LHA 1 TARAWA 76 SDG
LHA 2 SAIPAN 77 NOR
LHA 3 BELLEAU WOOD 78 SDG
LHA 4 NASSAU 79 NOR
LHA 5 PELELIU 80 SDG
LHD 1 WASP 89 NOR
LHD 2 ESSEX 92 SAS
LHD 3 KEARSARGE 93 NOR
LHD 4 BOXER 95 SDG
LHD 5 BATAN 97 NOR
LHD 6 BONHOMME RICHARD 98 SDG
LPH 2 IWO JIMA 61 93 NOR
LPH 3 OKINAWA 62 92 SDG
LPH 7 GUADALCANAL 63 94 NOR
LPH 9 GUAM 65 98 NOR
LPH 10 TRIPOLI 66 95 SDG
LPH 11 NEW ORLEANS 68 97 SDG
LPD 4 AUSTIN 65 NOR
LPD 5 OGDEN 65 SDG
LPD 6 DULUTH 66 SDG
LPD 7 CLEVELAND 67 SDG
LPD 8 DUBUQUE 67 SDG
LPD 9 DENVER 68 SDG
LPD 10 JUNEAU 69 SAS
LPD 12 SHREVEPORT 70 NOR
LPD 13 NASHVILLE 69 NOR
LPD 14 TRENTON 71 NOR
LPD 15 PONCE 71 NOR
LSD 41 WHIDBEY ISLAND 85 LCR
LSD 42 GERMANTOWN 86 SDG
LSD 43 FORT MCHENRY 87 SAS
LSD 44 GUNSTON HALL 89 LCR
LSD 45 COMSTOCK 90 SDG
LSD 46 TORTUGA 90 LCR
LSD 47 RUSHMORE 91 SDG
LSD 48 ASHLAND 92 LCR
LSD 49 HARPERS FERRY 94 SAS
LSD 50 CARTER HALL 95 LCR
LSD 51 OAK HILL 96 LCR
LSD 52 PEARL HARBOR 98 SDG
LCC 19 BLUE RIDGE 70 YOK
LCC 20 MOUNT WHITNEY 71 NOR
AGF 3 LA SALLE 64 GAE
AGF 11 CORONADO 70 SDG
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Last edited by graebardeII : 01-22-2006 at 01:15 PM.
graebardeII
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graebardeII
Minewarfare
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All USN Minewarfare are home ported at NS Ingleside TX, with rotations overseas as directed.
MCS 12 INCHON 70 ING
MCM 1 AVENGER 87 ING
MCM 2 DEFENDER 89 ING
MCM 3 SENTRY 89 ING
MCM 4 CHAMPION 91 ING
MCM 5 GUARDIAN 89 ING
MCM 6 DEVASTATOR 90 ING
MCM 7 PATRIOT 91 SAS*
MCM 8 SCOUT 90 ING
MCM 9 PIONEER 92 ING
MCM 10 WARRIOR 93 ING
MCM 11 GLADIATOR 93 ING
MCM 12 ARDENT 94 ING*
MCM 13 DEXTROUS 94 ING*
MCM 14 CHIEF 94 ING
MHC 51 OPSPREY 93 ING
MHC 52 HERON 94 ING
MHC 53 PELICAN 95 ING
MHC 54 ROBIN 96 ING
MHC 55 ORIOLE 95 ING
MHC 56 KINGFISHER 96 ING
MHC 57 CORMORANT 97 ING
MHC 58 BLACKHAWK 96 ING
MHC 59 FALCON 97 ING
MHC 60 CARDINAL 97 ING*
MHC 61 RAVEN 98 ING*
MHC 62 SHRIKE 99 ING
graebardeII
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shrike6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Wiser
If there had been no BRAC process (if the Wall hadn't come down), Alameda would certainly be still open. VA-304 (USN reserve with A-6Es and KA-6Ds) was the only squadron based there, but it was a carrier home port. One can see a continuance of the Reagan-era buildup into the 1990s up until the Sino-Soviet War begins. Then one would expect SECDEF and JCS starting to dust
off contingency plans to get ships out of mothballs, ID'ing reservists who would be called up first, etc. In my T2K timeline, I have the A-6F and F-14D
programs still going (axed in 1988 and 1992, respectively), and speed-up of
building Burke-class DDGs and Seawolf-class SSNs, along with the six unbuilt
Ohio-class SSBNs.
|
I pretty much agree with your assessment Matt except there still would have been a BRAC process it had started 1988. The army had drawn down two brigades before 1990 had started (2nd Brigade, 9th ID [1988] and 2nd Brigade, 4th ID [1989]). Maybe it wouldn't have been as deep as the one we know but there still would have been some sort of a drawdown. Although I do agree that Alameda probably still would have been there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalsecurity
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ility/brac.htm
....As economic pressures mounted, the drive to realign and close military installations intensified. In 1983 the President's Private Sector Survey on Cost Control (the Grace Commission) concluded in its report that economies could be made in base structure and simultaneously recommended the creation of a nonpartisan, independent commission to study base realignment and closure. Although nothing came of this recommendation, the defense budget that had been declining since 1985 and that was predicted to continue to decrease in coming years prompted the Secretary of Defense to take decisive action.
In 1988 the Secretary of Defense recognized the requirement to close excess bases to save money and therefore chartered the Commission on Base Realignment and Closure in 1988 to recommend military bases within the United States for realignment and closure......
....BRAC 1988
16 Major Closures
1. Army Material Tech Lab, MA
2. Cameron Station, VA
3. Chanute AFB, IL
4. Fort Douglas, UT
5. Fort Sheridan, IL
6. George AFB, CA
7. Jefferson Proving Ground, IN
8. Lexington Army Depot, KY
9. Mather AFB, CA
10. Naval Station Brooklyn, NY
11. Naval Station Lake Charles, LA
12. Naval Station, Galveston, TX
13. Norton AFB, CA
14. Pease AFB, NH
15. Philadelphia Naval Hospital, PA
16. Presidio of San Francisco, CA
1988 Commission
11 Realignments
1. Fort Bliss, TX
2. Fort Devens, MA
3. Fort Dix, NJ
4. Fort Holabird, MD
5. Fort Huachuca, AZ
6. Fort McPherson, GA
7. Fort Meade, MD
8. Fort Monmouth, NJ
9. Naval Station Pugent Sound, WA
10. Pueblo Army Depot, CO
11. Umatilla Army Depot, OR
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Last edited by shrike6 : 01-22-2006 at 06:34 PM.
shrike6
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FightingFlamingo
I think that in regards to the BRAC. If we are using a variant of the V1 chronology something has to address 1989. If it didn't happen and there was a heat up in the Cold War... those decisions could have been reversed. a Generalised timeline of events from 1988 through 1995 should be agreed on to justify a naval construction plan. After the Sino-Soviet War starts in 1995, there is potential for an acceleration of the the shipbuilding program.
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Cold Blue Steel - the spirit of the bayonet
FightingFlamingo
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chico20854
I can pull out the Naval shipbuilding plan from 1987 that lists what ships were to be built when. I think that will isolate 1989 and get us what a continuation of the Cold War would have looked like. I'll try to get to it today...
chico20854
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chico20854
US Navy Shipbuilding Plan as of 1988:
1 SSBN a year until 20 in the fleet
1 LA-class sub a year until 66 in the fleet
1 Seawolf class sub in 1989, 2 in 1991 and each year after.
1 carrier in 1990, 1 in 1993
3 Burke-class destroyers in 1989 and 1990, 5 in 1991 and 6 a year until 29 in the fleet
1 Wasp-class LHD in 1988, 1989 and 1991, 1 every other year until 12 in the fleet
1 LSD-CV in 1988, 1990, 1991 and 2 a year until 10 in the fleet
2 MHC (Italian Lerici-class minehunter) in 1989, 3 in 1990 and 1991, 4 a year after until 17 in the fleet
1 AOE in 1989 and 2 in 1991
1 AE-36 in 1991 and 1992, 2 in 1993, 1 in 1994.
1 ARS in 1990
2 T-AOE in 1988, 1989 and 1990, 1 in 1991.
2 T-AGOS in 1988, 1 in 1989, 3 in 1990, 2 in 1991.
12 LCAC a year.
The dates are order date. Commissioning dates are, on average, about 5 years after the order date, although that varies by type of ship and specific circumstances (i.e. shipyard bankruptcy, multiple vessels ordered on same date, etc).
For aircraft, the procurement plan was:
12 A-6E/F in 1988, 18 in 1989 and 24 a year thereafter
12 EA-6B a year
42 AV-8B a year until 328 in the fleet
132 FA-18 in 1988 and 1989, 163 a year thereafter
12 F-14 in 1988, 18 in 1989, 24 in 1990 and 36 in 1991 to 304 in the fleet
14 CH/MH-53E in 1988 and 1989, 12 in 1990 and the possibility of more thereafter
6 SH-60B in 1988, 1989 and 1990, 12 in 1991 and thereafter until 239 in the fleet
18 SH-60F in 1988, 1989 and 1990, 12 in 1991 and thereafter until 175 in the fleet
9 P-3 Orion/year, with P-6 production starting in 1990 and reaching 25 a year
6 E-2C a year
maintain capability to produce at least 6 SH-2G a year
3 E-6A/year
12 T-45 in 1988, 24 in 1989 and 1990, 48 in 1991 and thereafter
I haven't been able to locate the comparable Coast Guard plan.
chico20854
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shrike6
Good stuff Chico.
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shrike6
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graebardeII
Submarines
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SSN 585 SKIPJACK 59 90 NOR
SSN 588 SCAMP 61 91 SDG
SSN 590 SCULPIN 61 90 SDG
SSN 591 SHARK 61 90 NOR
SSN 592 SNOOK 61 86 NLD
SSN 594 PERMIT 62 91 SDG
SSN 595 PLUNGER 63 89 XX
SSN 596 BARB 63 89 XX
SSN 603 POLLOCK 64 89 XX
SSN 604 HADDO 64 91 SDG
SSN 605 JACK 67 90 NLD
SSN 606 TINOSA 64 92 NLD
SSN 607 DACE 64 88 XX
SSN 612 GUARDFISH 66 92 SDG
SSN 613 FLASHER 66 92 SDG
SSN 614 GREENLING 67 94 PNH
SSN 615 GATO 68 96 NLD
SSN 621 HADDOCK 67 93 MIC
SSN 597 TULIBEE 60 93 xx
SSN 637 STURGEON 67 94 CHA
SSN 638 WHALE 68 96 GRO
SSN 639 TAUTOG 68 97 PHB
SSN 646 GRAYLING 69 97 CHA
SSN 647 POGY 71 99 SDG
SSN 648 ASPRO 69 95 PHB
SSN 649 SUNFISH 69 97 CHA
SSN 650 PARGO 68 95 BRM
SSN 651 QUEENFISH 66 92 PHB
SSN 652 PUFFER 69 96 PHB
SSN 653 RAY 67 93 CHA
SSN 660 SANDLANCE 71 98 GRO
SSN 661 LAPON 67 92 NOR
SSN 662 GUMARD 68 95 SDG
SSN 663 HAMMERHEAD 68 95 MIC
SSN 664 SEA DEVIL 69 91 CHA
SSN 665 GUITARRO 72 92 SDG
SSN 666 HAWKBILL 71 99 PHB
SSN 667 BERGALL 69 96 MIC
SSN 668 SPADEFISH 69 97 NOR
SSN 669 SEAHORSE 69 95 CHA
SSN 670 FINBACK 70 97 NOR
SSN 672 PINADU 71 98 SDG
SSN 673 FLYINGFISH 70 96 BRM
SSN 674 TREPANG 70 99 GRO
SSN 675 BLUEFISH 71 96 NOR
SSN 676 BILLFISH 71 99 GRO
SSN 677 DRUM 72 95 SDG
SSN 678 ARCHERFISH 71 98 GRO
SSN 679 SILVERSIDES 72 94 BRM
SSN 680 WILLIAM H. BATES 73 00 PHB
SSN 681 BATFISH 72 98 GRO
SSN 682 TUNNY 74 98 PHB
SSN 683 PARCHE 74 00 SDG
SSN 684 CAVALLO 73 98 PHB
SSN 686 L. MENDEL RIVERS 75 00 NOR
SSN 687 RICHARD B. RUSSELL 75 94 MIC
SSN 645 JAMES K. POLK 66 99 NOR
SSN 671 NARWALL 69 99 NOR
SSN 685 GLENARD P. LIPSCOMB 74 89 XX
SSN 688 LOS ANGELES 76 00 PHB
SSN 689 BATON ROUGE 77 95 NOR
SSN 690 PHILADELPHIA 77 00 GRO
SSN 691 MEMPHIS 77 00 GRO
SSN 692 OMAHA 78 95 PHB
SSN 693 CINCINNATI 78 96 NOR
SSN 694 GROTON 78 97 GRO
SSN 695 BIRMINGHAM 78 97 PHB
SSN 696 NEW YORK CITY 79 97 PHB
SSN 697 INDIANAPOLIS 80 98 PHB
SSN 698 BREMERTON 81 00 PHB
SSN 699 JACKSONVILLE 81 00 NOR
SSN 700 DALLAS 81 00 GRO
SSN 701 LA JOLLA 81 00 PHB
SSN 702 PHOENIX 81 98 NOR
SSN 703 BOSTON 82 99 GRO
SSN 704 BALTIMORE 82 98 XX
SSN 705 CITY OF CORPUS CHRISTI 83 00 GUA
SSN 706 ALBUQUERQUE 83 00 GRO
SSN 707 PORTSMOUTH 83 00 SDG
SSN 708 MINNEAPOLIS-ST PAUL 84 00 NOR
SSN 709 HYMAN G. RICKOVER 84 00 NOR
SSN 710 AUGUSTA 85 00 GRO
SSN 711 SAN FRANCISCO 84 00 GUA
SSN 712 ATLANTA 82 00 NOR
SSN 713 HOUSTON 82 00 SDG
SSN 714 NORFOLK 83 00 NOR
SSN 715 BUFFALO 83 00 PHB
SSN 716 SALT LAKE CITY 84 00 SDG
SSN 717 OLYMPIA 84 00 PHB
SSN 718 HONOLULU 85 00 PHB
SSN 719 PROVIDENCE 85 00 GRO
SSN 720 PITTSBURG 85 00 GRO
SSN 721 CHICAGO 86 00 PHB
SSN 722 KEY WEST 87 00 PHB
SSN 723 OKLAHOMA CITY 88 00 NOR
SSN 724 LOUISVILLE 88 00 PHB
SSN 725 HELENA 87 00 SDG
SSN 750 NEWPORT NEWS 89 00 NOR
SSN 751 SAN JUAN 88 00 GUA
SSN 752 PASADENA 89 00 PHB
SSN 753 ALBANY 90 00 NOR
SSN 754 TOPEKA 89 00 PHB
SSN 755 MIAMI 90 00 GRO
SSN 756 SCRANTON 91 00 NOR
SSN 757 ALEXANDRIA 91 00 GRO
SSN 758 ASHEVILLE 91 00 PHB
SSN 759 JEFFERSON CITY 92 00 SDG
SSN 760 ANNAPOLIS 92 00 GRO
SSN 761 SPRINGFIELD 93 00 GRO
SSN 762 COLUMBUS 93 00 PHB
SSN 763 SANTA FE 93 00 PHB
SSN 764 BOISE 92 00 NOR
SSN 765 MONTPELIER 93 00 NOR
SSN 766 CHAROLETTE 94 00 PHB
SSN 767 HAMPTON 93 00 NOR
SSN 768 HARTFORD 94 00 GRO
SSN 769 TOLEDO 95 00 GRO
SSN 770 TUCSON 95 00 PHB
SSN 771 COLUMBIA 95 00 PHB
SSN 772 GREENVILLE 96 00 PHB
SSN 773 CHEYENNE 96 00 PHB
SS 572 SAILFISH 56 ?? BRM
AGSS 555 DOLPHIN 68 ?? SDG
SS 580 BARBEL 59 ?? XX
SS 581 BLUEBACK 59 ?? XX
SSN 21 SEAWOLF 97 00 GRO
SSN 22 CONNECTICUT 97 00 GRO
SSBN 609 SAM HOUSTON 62 91 XX
SSBN 611 JOHN MARSHALL 62 92 XX
SSBN 616 LAFAYETTE 63 91 GRO
SSBN 617 ALEXANDER HAMILTON 63 93 GRO
SSBN 619 ANDREW JACKSON 63 89 XX
SSBN 620 JOHN ADAMS 64 89 XX
SSBN 622 JAMES MONROE 63 90 CHA
SSBN 623 NATHAN HALE 63 86 XX
SSBN 624 WOODROW WILSON 63 94 CHA
SSBN 625 HENRY CLAY 64 90 CHA
SSBN 626 DANIEL WEBSTER 64 90 GRO
SSBN 627 JAMES MADISON 64 92 CHA
SSBN 628 TECUMSEH 64 93 NOR
SSBN 629 DANIEL BOONE 64 94 NOR
SSBN 630 JOHN C. CALHOUN 64 94 CHA
SSBN 631 ULYSSES S. GRANT 64 92 PNH
SSBN 632 VON STUBEN 64 94 CHA
SSBN 633 CASIMIR PULASKI 64 94 CHA
SSBN 634 STONEWALL JACKSON 64 95 CHA
SSBN 635 SAM RAYBURN 64 89 XX
SSBN 636 NATHANIAL GREEN 64 87 XX
SSBN 640 BENJAMIN FRANKLIN 65 93 NOR
SSBN 641 SIMON BOLIVAR 65 95 PSM
SSBN 642 KAMEHAMEHA 65 92 PHB
SSBN 643 GEORGE BANCROFT 66 93 CHA
SSBN 644 LEWIS AND CLARK 65 92 CHA
SSBN 645 JAMES K. POLK 66 99 NOR
SSBN 654 GEORGE C. MARSHALL 66 92 GRO
SSBN 655 HENRY L. STIMSON 66 93 CHA
SSBN 656 GEO. WASHINGTON CARVER 66 93 GRO
SSBN 657 FRANCIS SCOTT KEY 66 93 CHA
SSBN 658 MARIANO G. VALLEJO 65 95 CHA
SSBN 659 WILL ROGERS 67 93 GRO
SSBN 726 OHIO 81 00 BAN
SSBN 727 MICHIGAN 82 00 BAN
SSBN 728 FLORIDA 83 00 BAN
SSBN 729 GEORGIA 84 00 BAN
SSBN 730 HENRY M. JACKSON 84 00 BAN
SSBN 731 ALABAMA 85 00 BAN
SSBN 732 ALASKA 86 00 BAN
SSBN 733 NEVADA 86 00 BAN
SSBN 734 TENNESSEE 88 00 KBG
SSBN 735 PENNSYLVANIA 89 00 BAN
SSBN 736 WEST VIRGINIA 90 00 KBG
SSBN 737 KENTUCKY 91 00 KBG
SSBN 738 MARYLAND 92 00 KBG
SSBN 739 NEBRASKA 93 00 KBG
SSBN 740 RHODE ISLAND 94 00 KBG
SSBN 741 MAINE 95 00 KBG
SSBN 742 WYOMING 96 00 KBG
SSBN 743 LOUISANIA 97 00 KBG
graebardeII
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JimWardrip
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Nice work.
I did notice one area that I may be able to offer some insight. The Simpson (FFG56), Roberts (FFG58), and Kauffman (FFG59) were all home-ported in Newport until 94. There were some others there but I can't recall exactly which ones. I know the Simpson moved to Norfolk in 94 after returning from Somalia, then to Mayport 18-24 months later. I'm not sure when the Sammy B. and Kauffman left Newport, but I know they were still there in Dec 93.
Approaching this from the perspective that the Cold War did not end, in all likelihood the Navy would have maintained their de-centralized posture and would have maintained ships, more-or-less, at their 1989-90 locations.
Regards,
Jim Wardrip
T2k13 Design Team
JimWardrip
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graebardeII
Jim,
Thanks for the heads-up. I realize the homeports in 96 are probably different from those given. I appologize to all for that, but right now I'm trying to at least get all the vessels that were, or may have been had 'peace not broken out', in service. I have wound up using TWO sources now to cross check. FAS being the second source. I've discovered several ommissions on my part, which I will correct to the appropriate list today. I 'think' I have the list done for the most part.
I have well over 600 ships, not counting USCG vessels, sealift, prepositioned, and reserve fleet. I know some of the vessels on the list may come from RRF, but now my concentration is on logistical vessels.
FB
graebardeII
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graebardeII
Corrections
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Ddg 2 Charles F. Adams 60 90 May
Ddg 3 John King 61 90 Nor
Ddg 4 Lawrence 62 90 Nor
Ddg 5 Claude V. Ricketts 62 89 Nor
Ddg 6 Barney 62 90 Nor
Ddg 7 Henry B. Wilson 60 89 Nor
Ddg 8 Lynde Mccormick 61 91 Sdg
Ddg 9 Towers 61 90 Yok
Ddg 10 Sampson 61 91 May
Ddg 11 Sellers 61 89 Cha
Ddg 12 Robinson 61 91 Sdg
Ddg 13 Hoel 62 91 Sdg
Ddg 14 Buchanan 62 91 Sdg
Ddg 15 Berkeley 62 92 Sdg
Ddg 16 Joseph Strauss 63 90 Phb
Ddg 17 Conyngham 63 90 Nor
Ddg 18 Semmes 62 91 Cha
Ddg 19 Tattnall 63 91 May
Ddg 20 Goldsborough 63 93 Phb
Ddg 21 Cochrane 63 90 Yok
Ddg 22 Benjamin Stoddert 64 91 Phb
Ddg 23 Richard E. Byrd 64 90 Nor
Ddg 24 Waddell 64 92 Sdg
Lka 113 Charleston 68 92
Lka 114 Durham 69 94
Lka 115 Mobile 69 94
Lka 116 St Louis 69 92
Lka 117 El Paso 70 92
Lpd 1 Raleigh 62 91 Nor
Lpd 2 Vancouver 63 92 Sdg
Lst 1179 Newport 69 92 Lcr
Lst 1180 Manitowac 70 93 Lcr
Lst 1181 Sumter 70 93 Lcr
Lst 1182 Fresno 69 93 Sdg
Lst 1183 Peoria 70 94 Sdg
Lst 1184 Frederick 70 0 Phb
Lst 1185 Schenectady 70 93 Sdg
Lst 1186 Cayuga 70 94 Sdg
Lst 1187 Tuscaloosa 70 94 Sdg
Lst 1188 Saginaw 71 94 Sdg
Lst 1189 San Bernardino 71 95 Sdg
Lst 1190 Boulder County 71 94 Lcr
Lst 1191 Racine 71 93 Lbe
Lst 1192 Spartansburg County 71 94 Lcr
Lst 1193 Fairfax County 71 94 Lcr
Lst 1194 La Moure County 71 0 Lcr
Lst 1195 Barbour County 72 92 Sdg
Lst 1196 Harlan County 72 95 Lcr
Lst 1197 Barnstable County 72 94 Lcr
Lst 1198 Bristol County 72 94 Sdg
Mso 427 Constant 54 92 Sdg
Mso 433 Engage 54 91 May
Mso 437 Enhance 55 91 Tac
Mso 438 Esteem 55 91 Sea
Mso 439 Excel 55 92 Sfn
Mso 440 Exploit 54 93 Npt
Mso 441 Exultant 54 93 Cha
Mso 442 Fearless 54 90 Cha
Mso 446 Fortify 54 92 Lcr
Mso 448 Illusive 53 90 May
Mso 449 Impervious 54 91 May
Mso 455 Implicit 54 94 Tac
Mso 456 Inflict 54 90 Lcr
Mso 464 Pluck 54 90 Sdg
Mso 488 Conquest 55 94 Sea
Mso 489 Gallant 55 94 Sfn
Mso 490 Leader 55 92 Cha
Mso 492 Pledge 56 94 Sea
Mso 509 Adroit 57 92 Lcr
Mso 511 Affray 58 92 Cha