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davidns84
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefusilier
I don't know. There isn't an endless pit of money and resources. Especially once the fighting breaks out, the consumption will overtake whats available and produced. Prior to that, the Army, Navy, AF, and Marines will all be doing what they can to get a bigger slice of the pie in their own buildup. How can state guards compete with that?
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Well, they don't drink at the federal trough. Whatever the various state guards receive is going to come out of state budgets. Now, how much the federal government collects in taxes can affect state tax income, but both the Reagan-era military expansion and the current wartime pace of the US military followed on the heels of tax cuts. That leaves the states with what they can supply for their own forces.
As far industrial capacity goes, the Fed. gov't isn't making a force from whole cloth. The majority of what they are going to war with they already have. Even with aggressive expansion, they're going to be looking for firms can produce things in large numbers (it's why Haliburton received a no-bid contract for going into Iraq; there wasn't anyone else to do the job). There are a legion of smaller local businesses which can produce what is needed, but with less capacity. They're perfect for fulfilling the needs of a smaller state force.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headquarters
I think hunger is a pretty compelling historical motive.When the major population centers start to starve they will start collecting food from the rural areas either through cooperation but certainly also through coercion...
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Starvation as a primary cause is often responsible for rioting and mob violence, but civil war implies a sustained military conflict, which usually boiled down to ethic, political, or religious divisions. Starvation can be contributing factor or even THE trigger, but I can't think of a historical conflict where it was the primary cause (even Somalia). At least, not without a host of other factors surrounding it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headquarters
...this in turn leads to organized resistance that eventually can take over the area they are defending and acts a a de facto political entity or they are subjugated by either GOV and rooted out.
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But demand + supply usually = trade. Starvation, at this point, is going to be more breakdown of the supply chain than a lack of supply. The paranoid, of course, will want to hoard and strong arm to obtain supplies. Hopefully the government steps in, cracks a few heads together, and keeps such impulses under control so that cooler heads can prevail.
Quote:
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A secession or civil war is not declared with flowering language or formal acts of law-
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I can think of a few that were. The Jamestown Uprising, the English Civil War, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, the Bolshevik Uprising...
Quote:
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it just simmers when different motivated groups interact and may/may not boil over and crystallize in factions vying for power.
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It can and has occurred in that fashion. What one has to answer is whether or not that there is sufficient cause for it.
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In Twilight that means control over resources like petroleum products, industry or food. Imagine a federal government ordering a state to send half of its food stockpiles to the federals for "redistribution."
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I'm wondering... Who would be stupid enough to try and order that? Who would have need of half a state's supply? By what authority are they ordering that? Why aren't they busy trying to facilitate the reconstitution of a functioning market economy? Where are they going to stockpile it? Who has the time to plan the logistics for it?
If we're going to posit such a severe scenario, then it helps to know the underlying causes. Any government official involved in resource distribution is going to be conscious of scarcity and delicate nature of public need. Instead of trying to centrally plan an economy at the highest levels of government, especially in the wake of such infrastructural loss, it would behoove everyone to establish communication and trade, to avoid precisely that scenario. "If you can send X tons of food, we can send X tons of steel," or vice a versa.
Understand that I'm not saying that that scenario can't occur and chances are that it will on a more local basis. However, relative isolation serves as an advantage in this case. You don't have the ability to just swoop in and seize something. To do so means an expenditure of already precious resources and a destabilization of a tentative state of affairs. And at the end of the day, nobody wants to have shoot someone or be shot at in order to feed their family.
davidns84
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FightingFlamingo
Actually, the Feds can get money to the state guards indirectly by funnelling the money though FEMA. there won't be much, but it will be more than the state's can get on there own. FEMA has the legal authority to grant money to local and state authorities to promote civil defense and preparedness...
I touched on this in a document posted a while back about general mobilization issues (as we in the DC group generally see them, and have worked out related to Cold War US Army mobilization doctrine).
I had referenced something I called "The National Emergency Supplemental Funding Act of 1996" which I stated channeled money to the State Guards and Militia's through FEMA, as is legally done, and is actively done today(post 9/11 anti terrorism money). Chico addresses the some of the issues of personnel which I touched on also.
FightingFlamingo
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Headquarters
anyways
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidns84
Well, they don't drink at the federal trough. Whatever the various state guards receive is going to come out of state budgets. Now, how much the federal government collects in taxes can affect state tax income, but both the Reagan-era military expansion and the current wartime pace of the US military followed on the heels of tax cuts. That leaves the states with what they can supply for their own forces.
As far industrial capacity goes, the Fed. gov't isn't making a force from whole cloth. The majority of what they are going to war with they already have. Even with aggressive expansion, they're going to be looking for firms can produce things in large numbers (it's why Haliburton received a no-bid contract for going into Iraq; there wasn't anyone else to do the job). There are a legion of smaller local businesses which can produce what is needed, but with less capacity. They're perfect for fulfilling the needs of a smaller state force.
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Starvation as a primary cause is often responsible for rioting and mob violence, but civil war implies a sustained military conflict, which usually boiled down to ethic, political, or religious divisions. Starvation can be contributing factor or even THE trigger, but I can't think of a historical conflict where it was the primary cause (even Somalia). At least, not without a host of other factors surrounding it.
But demand + supply usually = trade. Starvation, at this point, is going to be more breakdown of the supply chain than a lack of supply. The paranoid, of course, will want to hoard and strong arm to obtain supplies. Hopefully the government steps in, cracks a few heads together, and keeps such impulses under control so that cooler heads can prevail.
I can think of a few that were. The Jamestown Uprising, the English Civil War, the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the American Civil War, the Bolshevik Uprising...
It can and has occurred in that fashion. What one has to answer is whether or not that there is sufficient cause for it.
I'm wondering... Who would be stupid enough to try and order that? Who would have need of half a state's supply? By what authority are they ordering that? Why aren't they busy trying to facilitate the reconstitution of a functioning market economy? Where are they going to stockpile it? Who has the time to plan the logistics for it?
If we're going to posit such a severe scenario, then it helps to know the underlying causes. Any government official involved in resource distribution is going to be conscious of scarcity and delicate nature of public need. Instead of trying to centrally plan an economy at the highest levels of government, especially in the wake of such infrastructural loss, it would behoove everyone to establish communication and trade, to avoid precisely that scenario. "If you can send X tons of food, we can send X tons of steel," or vice a versa.
Understand that I'm not saying that that scenario can't occur and chances are that it will on a more local basis. However, relative isolation serves as an advantage in this case. You don't have the ability to just swoop in and seize something. To do so means an expenditure of already precious resources and a destabilization of a tentative state of affairs. And at the end of the day, nobody wants to have shoot someone or be shot at in order to feed their family.
other people take a different view - and historical examples may be interpretefd differently by people with other perspectives - I dont see the basis for believing that some sort of "order" necsissarily will prevail when people get pushed to their limits as you do.
But I am sure your scenario is fun too.
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davidns84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headquarters
Other people take a different view - and historical examples may be interpreted differently by people with other perspectives - I don't see the basis for believing that some sort of "order" necessarily will prevail when people get pushed to their limits as you do.
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Plenty of historical events are up for interpretation, but I tend to look for historical parallels when writing alternate history. And really, it's just a game. My players will probably never put a fraction of that type of thought into the world their playing in, but if one of them does start to dig, I want to give them a decent answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headquarters
But I am sure your scenario is fun too.
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It ain't all hearts and flowers. The government is dealing with the various New America factions, the well armed and organized anti-government Sovereign Citizen movement which has taken control of territory in the Northwest the size of Switzerland, the new ultra-nationalist regime in Mexico is planning to launch a "Reconquista" campaign in the Southwest, Mormon quasi-theocratic isolationists are moving to take control of Utah, and a race war has erupted between heavily armed black and hispanic gangs along the West Coast, along with all the smaller marauder bands, domestic terrorists, and armed kooks. Lots of fun.
davidns84
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Headquarters
"Beware of Geeks bearing Gifts"
yeah..
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History is a great and interesting subject.It is however, a variable as far as how percieves what from it .I too try to find historical similarities to give my campaign an air of sci not just fi.
It is likely you would have a situation where local goverments /administrators try to reestablish a functioning national state again.
It is however ,just as likely that there are those who will not .This may stem from a variety of causes -one being the unwillingness to part with resources that form the basis of their ability to hold on to power,another the perception that higher authority is not competent or representative .
This has happened a lot of times over the course of history and is sure to happen again imho.
People will look to the leadership that seem to hold promise of bettering their lives .Especially if their lives are in danger.When this is boiled down to the basic functions like real need for armed security at almost all times, a food supply that they know will be there when winter comes and medical facilities ready to contribute -they will most of the time choose to follow he who can provide this.If central goverment is too far away they will turn to local leaders .These leader may say they actually want to reconstruct the state and mean it to ,but still not be able due to a myriad of practical reasons.
Or they might actually make it - like the MilGov faction or the CivGov faction who is partially on their way .
But large "countries" or empires that have longer recorded histories than the US of A have been split up and warped into a plethora of smaller independent units.So in the mix of all you or I have said -thats my sci -most of the rest is just good fun to relay and the fi is what carries the campaign.I take a bleaker view you might say ,of the possibilities of a "grand reconstruction" after something like the events in Twilight 2000.New nation states wil emerge - quite possibly some of them will be on the north american continent.
Anyways -its not all "the writing on the wall" in my campaign , MilGov and CivGov are not formally at war ,there is a shaky peace and a stand offish kind of situation between the two.My players try their best to break the truce to save their warlord fiefs and constantly wage war against the two Govs as best they can .
The chaos makes for a good backdrop for all sorts of events like battles,specialforces missions,cloak and dagger stuff and of course a more strategy orientated segment with more "war room and council chamber "type play.
Headquarters
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Webstral
Despite my differences of opinion on how well-funded and/or well-equipped state guards might find themselves to be in the years leading up to the Thanksgiving Day Massacre, I do feel that state guards have a tremendous role to play. Skipping over the issue of housing for dependents and all of its attendant problems, I have some ideas on how a state guard might best be organized. On paper, at least, it might look something like this in late 1997:
Civil Defense Battalion
Tasks:
Public order/safety (MP)
Communications (Sig)
Intelligence gathering/processing (HUMINT)
Infrastructure maintenance and repair (Engineering)
Possible HAZMAT handling (Chem)
Logistics (Quartermaster)
Transportation (Trans)
Maintenance (Maint)
Table of Organization
1 battalion headquarters
2 MP companies
1 heavy engineer company (maybe 2)
1 MI/HUMINT platoon
1 signal platoon
1 transportation platoon
1 chemical platoon
1 maintenance company/platoon
1 CDSC (Civil Defense Support Company)
1 Quartermaster platoon
The CDSC might include public affairs, JAG, and other specialists. Snipers and other combat-related personnel could be included in the battalion headquarters & headquarters company.
I gave this a lot of thought while I was in Iraq and after coming home. I believe the National Guard ought to have brigades structured for disaster relief. The mission of disaster relief involves many of the same tasks as rear area security and SUSO (Sustainment and Support Ops). While being set up for disaster relief might not make the National Guard ideally trained and organized for missions like the OIFs, the force structure and training could be adapted from the basic model.
National Guard aside, the state guard really shouldn’t be set up for high intensity combat. It’s the responsibility of the federal government to guard the nation’s borders. State guards exist to provide disaster relief and rear area security.
How the equipment is going to be provided is anybody’s guess. The heavy engineer companies would include a fair amount of earthmoving equipment. Earthmoving is what they do after a natural disaster—or even a manmade one. I did a little Internet shopping to see how much money an engineer company might consume in the process of properly equipping itself. Yikes! I’m not debating whether the money is worth it. I’m just saying yikes!
Another issue, which I don’t feel the National Guard has addressed very well, is assembling the troops in the event of a major disaster. I look at my rifle company. We come from all over the state. In the event of a big earthquake that messes up the transportation system, I can’t imagine how we were all supposed to assemble at Camp Parks RFTA. If the bridges in the Bay Area went out, I’d have to drive hours to get to Camp Parks. If the bridges are out, odds are that traffic throughout the Bay will be affected. Who knows how long it would take for me to get to my unit. I’d be better off driving up the street to the MI armory in San Rafael.
My situation may have been unique. A light infantry unit has a certain attractiveness to a certain type of National Guardsmen. About 95% of us were prior service. About 75% of us were prior service infantry, either in the Marines or the Army. These two facts set us apart from the run-of-the-mill National Guardsman, and many of my compatriots were willing to travel a considerable distance to up their weekends. (What freaks we are!) Other kinds of units may not have the same dispersal pattern. I don’t have enough information to say one way or another.
Okay, so I lied about not wanting to cover the issue of housing the dependents. How well the state guard is able to respond to disasters is dependent on how readily the unit is able to assemble. The engineers are not of the same utility if they are a hundred miles from their equipment. The same is true of all the specialists. It seems to me that there are a couple of solutions. (I welcome ideas I don’t mention.)
One method for ensuring the troops are together when they are needed is to copy the active duty forces and have bases/posts in which and around which the troops and their dependents live. There are some real problems with this. Who pays for the housing? How do we get the guardsmen to move to this housing? And what is the impact of not having the guardsmen living among the people they are serving? This last bit is more of a philosophical point, but I think it bears mentioning.
Another possibility is to establish armories in lots of communities. Let’s imagine that a fictitious 45th Civil Defense Battalion is based in the San Francisco Bay Area. Everyone in the 45th CDBn is required to live within a certain distance of their unit. An additional requirement might be that we don’t have to cross any bridges to get to our armories. This would require minimal disruption to the existing housing scheme. However, centralization (and it attendant economies of scale) would be impossible. This might have a real budgetary consequence.
Must run. I would be very interested to hear some other ideas on how to manage armories and the like for the state guard.
Webstral
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FightingFlamingo
I'd go with a geographical assignment based on the individuals HOR. So as Chico had previously stated, I'd fill up the units with recruits who were marginally unfit for regular military duty, and assign them geographicly based on the nearest armory to the HOR. This may lead to urbanized area's getting more Bn's and have better manning than rural ones, but dispenses with the problem of infrastructure damage when the state guards are needed. Additionally, I don't see them as having an intended direct combat role, but more of a point, and rear area security role. Weapons would be obsolecent at best, and most likely surplus M1 Girands out of war stocks. Training would also be as described in chico's document above.
the basis for forcing those regected from regular military service from the draft boards would be the Militia Act (1792) and 32 USC 109.
Possible selective service codes for induction to the State Guards could be:
1W Conscientious objector ordered to perform alternative service
3A Registrant deferred because of hardship to dependents
3A-S Registrant deferred because of hardship to dependents (separated).
4A Registrant who has completed military service.
4A-A Registrant who has performed military service for a foreign nation.
4G Registrant exempted from service because of the death of his parent or sibling while serving in the Armed Forces or whose parent or sibling is in a captured or missing in action status.
4W Registrant who has completed alternative service in lieu of induction.
FightingFlamingo
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Headquarters
Home Guard
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Over here we have something similar to the State Guard and National Guard called the Home Guard.It is meant to be deployed only on our own soil.
Every county is its own "district" and every municipality is its own "sector".
There is no "housingplan" or anything like that and in fact many people are obliged to serve as part of the home guards under mandatory conscription laws or as a part of their reservist agreement.Anyways -the bulk of its members are civilians with families,jobs etc.Rather than concentrating all the personel within a camp or something like that they make up units in a defined geographical area . A small town or community might be an infantry company . A larger town might be a battallion.If it has a shore line naval units like patrol boats or even civilian craft with weapons added by the home guard are available.Some officers and staff are the cadre and are full time .The rest gets called up ,don their uniforms and backpacks and move to the location of their armoury or their post if they already have their weapons at home.(Some do - others go to their armoury ,usually located a short drive or a brisk walk from their home .).This system allows for rapid mobilization of light units .(There are few or no armored units in this set up - they are regular army).And they can do a mulltitude of tasks like disaster relief,armed resistance or policing and so on.
Armouries and stockpiles are placed locally so that the units will be made up from local residents -primarily -and their gear is also readily available.
It should be said that heavier weapons like AA guns and mortars normally are "district " assets and kept in vicinity of police or military posts.But recoilles rifles,HMGs etc are normally distributed down to individual platoons or companies.A platoon armory can be built on privat land if duly compensated and some farmers actually have a small ammo bunker somewhere on their property.Earlier on every Home Guards man would have a G3 at home but all the shootings ended this ( normally tragic incidents were the whole family ws killed by the now bankrupt husband /father before killing himself and so on ).
Desentralization is the way to go if you dont expect to have alot of time to "make ready" .We dont -being a small country militarily and all ,and having alot of difficult terrain and fjords that make centralized mobilization difficult.We arm the already trained and enlisted civillians where they are and implement already laid down plans and command structures .(Home Guard is run by local boards where police ,political and military leaders make the descisions in times of war and crisis.)
Funding comes from the central budgets of course and equipment is more or less the same as regular army ,usually a bit older and more worn but still alright.Same rifles,LMGs and so on .)
Officers and NCOs get paid during excersises and crisis call ups and the enlisted man gets a ceratain compensation that is meant to cover his loss of pay from his workplace etc .All employers are obliged by law to accept someone leaving work if called up etc.
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Webstral
RE: The State Guard overview posted by Chico
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I like the idea of calling up “retired” National Guard members under the age of 60. I am curious about the legal basis for doing so, however. A cadre of National Guardsmen would be a very useful asset when a state is considering building a state guard from scratch or heavily augmenting an existing state guard.
The emphasis on “individual skills such as marksmanship and first aid, riot control and civil defense/disaster relief…” seems very appropriate to the state guard job. The high rate of absenteeism is a shrewd analysis of the situation as we should expect it in most locations. I have made an exception for Vermont—especially after the Alarm. States that experience a very high volume of refugee traffic are very likely to be Johnnies-come-lately to the state guard experience and execute an eleventh-hour surge before the TDM.
I agree with the list of responsibilities for the state guards.
“Despite the high quality of the staff, the actual conduct of operations was spotty. Many of the recruits referred to the State Guards were unfit for service or generally reluctant to serve. The quantity of new recruits referred to the State Guards far exceeded the organization’s ability to evaluate, train and absorb. Much effort was wasted screening out the criminal, addicted and unsuitable. Organizations were in constant turmoil as new recruits reported and had to be absorbed and given further training while units were actively undertaking operational missions. While there was a solid cadre of mid and high grade NCOs and officers in the recalled retirees, there was a dearth of lower grade NCOs and officers to execute the plans developed by the staffs (who were themselves of only marginal ability to operate in the field).”
Good stuff! While I am not quite so optimistic about the ability and/or motivation of the former National Guard NCOs and senior officers to provide excellent staffing for the battalions and regiments, I support the general thesis that these men and women are going to give us something much better than what we might expect from an organization built from the ground up or built on pre-existing state guard structures. Some battalions will be superb, others will be very good, and others will be a mess. It’s the luck of the draw. A lot will depend on the National Guard organization of the state in question. In a state with a good National Guard tradition (I have read that Texas and Virginia are examples of this), we should expect comparatively large numbers of called-up retirees to create solid staffs. In a state with a sketchier National Guard tradition, we might expect a lesser product.
I love the description of the woes of the state guards during emergencies. This, I feel, is highly realistic.
“The low morale and perception of ineffectiveness drove absenteeism up as 1997 grew later. Guardsmen were expected not only to report for training two weekends a month but to report for regularly scheduled security duties (usually a week each month) and to be available for additional callups (such as for evacuations and disaster relief duties). As absenteeism grew the remaining members were tasked with more duties in a rapidly accelerating downward spiral.”
I love it! I wish I had written this.
Overall, I think the analysis of the fates of the various state guards is very good. I like the fact that the overall picture of the v1 canon doesn’t have to be changed much to account for most state guards. Many of them simply vanish under the pressure of post-attack realities. Nevertheless, we can pick and choose individual circumstances in which the state guard survives, either as an auxiliary to another military force or as a military force in their own right.
I’m going to incorporate this into my own planning and creating with few modifications.
Webstral
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chico20854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral
I like the idea of calling up “retired” National Guard members under the age of 60. I am curious about the legal basis for doing so, however. A cadre of National Guardsmen would be a very useful asset when a state is considering building a state guard from scratch or heavily augmenting an existing state guard.
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I think the basis for this is that National Guardsmen who, after 20 or more years of service, retire and choose to hold off drawing their pension until age 60 (and thus get a larger pension) are required to remain a member of the retired reserve (as do retirees from the USAR and Active Duty). As reservists, they are liable to be called up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral
I love it! I wish I had written this.
Overall, I think the analysis of the fates of the various state guards is very good. I like the fact that the overall picture of the v1 canon doesn’t have to be changed much to account for most state guards. Many of them simply vanish under the pressure of post-attack realities. Nevertheless, we can pick and choose individual circumstances in which the state guard survives, either as an auxiliary to another military force or as a military force in their own right.
I’m going to incorporate this into my own planning and creating with few modifications.
Webstral
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Glad you liked it. We're all about creating options here and trying to create a reasonable explanation of many things that GDW didn't explain in the v1 canon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral
Civil Defense Battalion
Tasks:
Public order/safety (MP)
Communications (Sig)
Intelligence gathering/processing (HUMINT)
Infrastructure maintenance and repair (Engineering)
Possible HAZMAT handling (Chem)
Logistics (Quartermaster)
Transportation (Trans)
Maintenance (Maint)
Table of Organization
1 battalion headquarters
2 MP companies
1 heavy engineer company (maybe 2)
1 MI/HUMINT platoon
1 signal platoon
1 transportation platoon
1 chemical platoon
1 maintenance company/platoon
1 CDSC (Civil Defense Support Company)
1 Quartermaster platoon
I'm a bit leery about one of the missions and organizations you list - Humint - for two reasons. First, given the partnership the state guards have with State Police forces, I think that there is a duplication of effort (and I'm not sure how much need there is for it). The mission is too intensive to try to do on the side (weekends and one duty week a month). The second is related - I think that creating voluntary military intelligence organizations under the control of state governors might cause (probably legitimate) concerns about control and civil liberties. (My point of view is from my experience in a National Guard MI unit... there were a heck of a lot of restrictions we had to operate under re: domestic operations, including an across-the-board prohibition from civil disturbance prep or taskings!). Given all the other things on their plate, I'd limit the sort of thing S-2 shops were looking for to threat info passed down from FORSCOM, FBI and state/local law enforcement and intelligence prep of the battlefield type work - transportation infrastructure data, possible logistic supplies, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral
How the equipment is going to be provided is anybody’s guess. The heavy engineer companies would include a fair amount of earthmoving equipment. Earthmoving is what they do after a natural disaster—or even a manmade one. I did a little Internet shopping to see how much money an engineer company might consume in the process of properly equipping itself. Yikes! I’m not debating whether the money is worth it. I’m just saying yikes!
I'm not sure if the State Guards have to buy their own heavy engineering equipment. There are a few options: 1) to use local and state transportation department's equipment (dump trucks and such) 2) require state & local governments to turn heavy equipment that is being retired as part of the regular turnover over to the state guards or 3) requisition civilian construction company's equipment upon declaration of emergency (or even write into all local & state government construction contracts that they'll hand it over upon an order from the governor). With the industrial mobilization for the war, I'm not sure how much construction equipment is going to be coming off the assembly lines that isn't painted green and destined for the Seebees, Red Hat Squadrons or Construction Engineer battalions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webstral
Another issue, which I don’t feel the National Guard has addressed very well, is assembling the troops in the event of a major disaster. I look at my rifle company. We come from all over the state. In the event of a big earthquake that messes up the transportation system, I can’t imagine how we were all supposed to assemble at Camp Parks RFTA. If the bridges in the Bay Area went out, I’d have to drive hours to get to Camp Parks. If the bridges are out, odds are that traffic throughout the Bay will be affected. Who knows how long it would take for me to get to my unit. I’d be better off driving up the street to the MI armory in San Rafael.
I think Headquarters has pointed to part of the answer - local basing (as you also touched on). I know the MD National Guard has a policy that a soldier should be stationed within 50 miles of his home (for things such as involuntary assignment, for example). (On the other hand, we had soldiers coming to drill outside of Washington DC from Boston and Houston!) For the state guards, maybe go even more local, assigning guardsmen to a unit within 5 or 10 miles from a designated unit assembly site. Use National Guard armories, state police barracks, prisons and jails, other state emergency services sites (such as a state fire training academy), state parks and transportation department depots, maybe even local police stations and fire departments. I have a feeling that if you plotted these locations out on a map, you could get pretty good coverage of most populated areas. They also provide a (generally secure or easy to secure) place to store equipment (and if you go with having state guards use state transportation departments vehicles the depots make a natural assembly point) and are already paid for (and in 24-hour operation for some of the facilities, so no additional security expense). It also takes care of the housing issue for dependents, at least until it is time to evacuate - units provide no housing for the soldiers, as they are all within a 10 or 20 minute drive (or 1-hour bike ride) of home. I prefer to leave the housing of dependents after an evacuation an unresolved issue, as it provides part of the explanation for why the guards disintegrate following the strategic nuclear exchange.
Thanks for the input!
-Chico
chico20854
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Webstral
I like the idea of obtaining heavy engineer equipment from local contractors. It would be interesting to see what the legal ramifications are. Can a state legally require equipment to be handed over under set conditions? I suppose this isn't terribly different from other commandeering rules. Anyway, even with potential legal obstacles I think the idea is workable. Someone in operations would have to keep track of the locally-available equipment, but this is hardly a major challenge.
I see the HUMINT side being an adjunct to police operations. During a breakdown in civil order, there will be a lot of crimes and a lot of information to gather. Police assets all the way up to the state level may find themselves overwhelmed. State guard interrogators can ease some of the burden. I agree that good interrogation skills require constant practice, but this hasn't prevented the National Guard from maintaining a number of MI units with interrogators. Better half a loaf than none. In any event, HUMINT does not represent one of the primary tasks for a civil defense battalion.
Webstral
Webstral
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FightingFlamingo
Web, I think the federal and state govenments can requisition anything they need in times of crisis using imminent domain as an excuse, but they certainly can include emergency tranfer clauses into any contracts they have with whatever service providers they work with from fuel suppliers, to construction firms...
FightingFlamingo
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Webstral
I suppose government contracts must be sufficiently lucrative that every contractor knows some contractor will buy into it. Ah, the beauty of the free market!
Webstral
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kato13
While searching for FEMA/State Emergency Operations Centers for my mapping project i found these links and proper names for the state guards. Hope someone finds them useful.
Links are from
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...111852942/pg_1
page 8 IIRC
Alabama State Defense Force,
http://www.alsdf.org/
Alaska State Defense Force,
http://www.ak-prepared.com/asdf
California State Military Reserve,
http://www.militarymuseum.org/CASMR.html
Connecticut State Militia,
http://www.ct.ngb.army.mil/militia/militia.asp
Florida State Defense Force,
http://www.floridaguard.bravepages.com/
Georgia State Defense Force,
http://www.dod.state.ga.us/SDF/
Indiana Guard Reserve,
http://go.to/igr
Louisiana State Guard
Maryland Defense Force,
http://www.mddefenseforce.org/
Massachusetts Military Reserve
Michigan Emergency Volunteers
Mississippi State Guard,
http://groups.msn.com/MississippiStateGuard/
New Jersey Naval Militia,
http://www.njnavy.com/; and New Jersey Army State Guard
New Mexico State Defense Force
New York Guard and New York Naval Militia,
http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/
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North Carolina State Guard,
http://www.microsupportltd.com/ncsga/toc.htm
Ohio Military Reserve,
http://www.ohio.gov/ohmr/; Ohio Naval Militia,
http://www.sgaus.org/hist_onm.htm
Oregon State Defense Force,
http://www.mil.state.or.us/SDF/index.html
Pennsylvania State Military Reserve,
http://www.navpoint.com/~pasmr/
Puerto Rico State Guard
South Carolina State Guard,
http://www.scsg.org/
Tennessee State Guard,
http://home.att.net/~dcannon.tenn/TNSG.html
Texas State Guard,
http://www.agd.state.tx.us/agdmain/s...indexframe.htm
Virginia Defense Force,
http://www.virginiadefenseforce.org/home
Washington State Guard,
http://www.washingtonguard.com/State_Guard/