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Old 09-09-2008, 05:19 PM
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Hangfire7 09-06-2008, 12:46 AM Time is the one factor that was not addressed. And that is normaly the big difference between a police and a military op. Police have the luxury of time, military do not. In this scenario time does not seem to be a factor, none the less I shall try to do several plans.


1.) Burn them out, is a quick and easy solution. And they would have the choice of stay and burn or make a break for it. Leave them an opening or so they think so at least they can try to make a break for it and let them go for it where you nail them in the open.


2.) Wait them out. You can unnerve them, have the sniper try to nail one in the belly. These are painful and fatal but they take time. This will work on the men inside. Their being TRAPPED will be something causing the stress to rise. A wounded many moaning and groaning and dying will further work on them. Stressed men will make mistakes and it could cause them to move before they should. Emotional actions verses thought actions.


Also, send in a couple CS grenades, this is a persistant agent so they will suffer its affects for a while, making them uncomfortable.


Also, the sniper can nail people as he sees them and can do it, whittling them down. And again, putting them on edge afraid to move.

,

If binos are available, then continue to observe the movement, numbers, weapons and locations, baiscaly a SALUTE.


Place the Humvee towards the front. Infiltrate personel around the perimeter but do not let them know your position nor your numbers.


The front is a given where you will cover it. Leave to them a open spot for them to try to slip through. After all, what kind of person will sit and let themselves be surrounded with no hope for rescue or support? Let them think they can slip out, or have a way to make a break for it and get them in the open.


Place the Humvee at the front LEFT corner of the building so they can cover the front and left walls.


M-240 at the REAR right and now you have the building covered. These folks will maintain fire discipline so if the enemy makes a breack it will be in their direction.


You now have them boxed in. And you just wait.



Another option, sit, wait, observe and when you see troop concentrations or targets of oportunity that willl not endanger/damage the package then they are open to being peppered with the M2 or the 203s. Blow the room out along with several of the enemy.


And to take it down quick,


Well in my view, its only CS. There is a reason we go through the gas chamber. To be used to it and to learn not to panic. So,


In goes the CS, CS is a weapon of confusion. Let them stew in it. It will settle, they will be reduced in their ability, they will be contaminated. Let them stew.



Support weapons provide cover of areas at alternate corners ensuring they have full field of fire of enemy firing ports, windows, doors and the sides of the building to ensure the enemy can be suppressed as well as engaged should they try to run.


ALSO, each covering team M2 and M240 will have 1 of the Rockets. A-Gunner will be the go man. 1 rocket will fire at key point. Then the machienguns will fire and shift from target to target. Sniper will engage with targets of oportunity.


That is 5 members of the squad. 2 members per automatic weapon, plus 1 sniper.


Remaining team of 4 person in buddy teams will make assault, in goes frag unless the PACKAGE is in there, then they clear the room. <You say, but they CSed the building. Yes, but it would settle, they may get secondary contamination but it will be minimal, and they will improvise masks via wet bandana from the 1st Aid kit to reduce its effects. Their eyes will burn, but idealy the operation will be over before it takes full effect> So the rocket is fired in the area without the package that has enemy personel in it to make the most of the expensive weapons expendature, it will either kill or incapacitate those inside. In goes the team, they will be in buddy pairs.


Team A will cover left side of room and building, team B will cover the right. Thus, if there is a hall the same goes, A=Left, B=Right. And here is where we have an SOP as was already stated, each team does their job, each team member does what is trained. Idealy the team members alternate, unless you have someone freaky good.


The teams also alternate taking down the rooms. A covers the hall and security while B goes in to the room and vice versa. And if one team becomes engaged, the other team manuvers to cover/flank the bad guys.


Once the package is secured, the team who secured it calls it whatever the predetermined word is the other team becomes security whol the team who grabed the package gets out with the remaining team covering and brining up the rear.


Constant Observation

Constant Demonstration with the Humvee and .50 <you can't hide or infiltrate one, so use it as a phsycological weapon> It engages the upper floor and targets of oportunity that are safe

SNIPER;constant observation and targets of oportunity


CS in, where the troops are concentrated or in a central hallway and in the second floor<A side affect is enemy will move and concentrate where the gas is not, putting them in a likely place, much like a landmine, it will channel them>


Assault Team infiltrates to within staging point


Rocket fires at entry point where you want to breach


Rocket is signal for Assault team to go through the breach. From this point it is BALLS TO THE WALL!!!!


They make entry clearing room 1 in an couple of seconds


Move to hall clear, move to door 1, one team covers while other team makes entry and so it continues.


As states team captures Package while other team covers and Package team now leaves.


Remember, the mission is the package and not to kill all the bad guys. Once you have the package secure you can torch the building and save ammo.


Things to consider:


If the assault team is observed you should have a predetermined point of no return. If they are too far or come under to heavy fire then support weapons are used to button up the enemy as they withdraw. If they are close then the mission goes as planned, they just start their run from further out counting on the support fire of their teammates to keep the enemy buttoned up while they make entry.


SOPs should be known and it is assumed they would have them if they were working together for a time.


Signals should be there to signal a withdraw, and avenues of retreat should also be preplanned so the assault teams do not get blasted by their own support teams either when they have to withdraw, or when they return with their package.


As for the upstairs. DICEY!!!! I hate stairs!


FAST!! A diversion be it a frag, in a wooden building like that, not recmended, a CS, it takes time for it to go and you will get primary exposure, machinegun fire to cover but the package is endangered as would be the team unless you have a means of them shifting fire.


So, move into position, and one team covers while the other advances slowly until the last section at which time they cover and the other team moves. Then, at the last landing, one team covers while the other again makes a mad dash. This is a bad situation mind you as it is a narrow channeled route and a kill zone.


One of the major things I think is critical, to reduce the number of bad guys via sniper fire and .50 fire. And even 203 fire. Spot the locations, firing points, special weapons, and troop concentrations and of course the package. Those are all pieces to the puzzle, so find as many of them as you can which help the situation.


Another method, make it un teniable in the 2nd floor with fire from the automatic weapons so they withdraw from that storey. The support weapons aiming high unless they can clearing engage the enemy, the sniper taking out point targets.


Then when the assault goes down, it is done like usual, the CS goes into areas you want to deny the enemy. Then the team goes in with a Rocket or Frag into the breachpoint.


And it is to be expected that a good number will beat feet out the backdoor when the front get blown to pieces.


And of course you can then do the following:


"Hey... hey you in there!"


"You are surrounded. You can't get out. So, here's the deal. Send out "the package" and we'll let you go. Thats all we want. Otherwise, well, use your imagination."


In the Twilight World, it may work. And yes, that was inspired by Kellys Heroes.


One thing to keep in mind, assets and objectives will change. It is a fluid enviroment where dynamic action is required. <damn thats alot of $5 word> but it is true. So one must be flexible as to what one does.


Also, what is the overriding issue? Mission, conservation of resources, time? And then the commanders intent? Some could give the mission as, "don't destroy the building" although if the PACKAGE is there you could keep the building intact but the package would be destroyed, and the mission is a failure. And then we could succeed in capturing the package and destroy the whole house.


An example,


Set the second floor on fire, wait for the enemy to bail out, engage them as they do. And the assault team goes in the front door. They have to deal with a building in flames but the enemy will most likely vacate the building, or its numbers would be greatly reduced.


Again it all depends on the situation. Would the villagers be happy you torched the building which can spread to neighboring buildings and possibly torch the whole town?





So, the CS goes in, and you wait.

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kcdusk 09-06-2008, 10:06 PM EXCELLENT post chico!


Good reading in the replies also.


When does the next tactical question go up (anyone?)?

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kcdusk 09-07-2008, 12:50 AM 1) That "cubby hole" in the building, on the upper floor, worries me.


2) i like the idea of mouse-holeing into the building, it would be a bit unexpected.


3) if this scenario is t2k, a SWAT team wouldnt be on call, so make do with who you have.

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Brother in Arms 09-07-2008, 07:30 AM Given the List of manpower and equipment you should be able to root out 10-12 Marauders. Lets look at what is available closely.


6-10 PC's

2-4 NPC

Thats 8-14 people depending on the situation.


Heavy weapons:

1-.50 cal Machine gun

3-RPG rockets (probably HEAT)


Medium weapons:

1-.30 cal Machine gun

1-M203 grenade launcher (probably HE)

1-.30 cal Sniper rifle/DMR

12-Frag grenades


Light weapons:

8-14 Assault rifles or SMG to equip the unit


Non-lethal:

2-3 CS grenades


Other:

1-HMMWV


Looks like there are a lot of outbuildings and concealment around the school. So those are good positions to put men in to surround it. With the heavy weapons available to the unit you could just destroy the building if worse comes to worse. But I think that given the open position of the school and its brick and plaster construction the .50 cal machine gun and .30 cal machine gun can basically turn it from cover to concealment. I would set up positions around the school with the Humvee and the 50 in the front but far enough away that they can't easily hit it the 50 out ranges any weapons an Infantry unit might have (other than an Anti material rifle). Then Light them up with the .50 if they try to return fire they get shot up by the GPMG, sniper and riflemen. Or until they realize they aren't really safe inside from the 50 and decide to evacuate the position. Of course you have it covered from all sides so if they attempt to leave they get cut down while trying to find new cover. If that doesn't work and they just sit tight then use the M203 and lob HE rounds into the windows and chuck frags if you can get close enough to use them. Worst case scenario you blow it up with the RPG but lose whatever it was inside that you needed to get.


No reason to make a tactical entry or use house to house fighting....its not like the school has any value as far as infrastructure is concerned and you don't have to worry about collateral damage also there are no non-combatants in a total war.


I would think of it using tactics more like ww2 than fighting of today. Because unlike today you have no support. And unlike today who cares what you damage. And you don't have to worry about what the world community might think of your tactics you just have to get the job done.


Brother in Arms

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Mohoender 09-07-2008, 08:15 AM Brother in Arms


I might be wrong but I think they have something you really need. So nice to turn the building to rubbles but,then, Oops.


I just watched the fifth episode of "ultimate force" (depicting SAS trying to enter a sealed building to get back a very lethal virus). They were ready to act like you suggest by blowing up the entire stucture with very high power explosive (you don't have these).


So you must enter the building and you have a good reason to do it. In that case I don't know if it is a virus (actually I don't expect it to be) but if it is you might simply wiped out what is left of humanity (or a good portion of it). Anyway whatever or whoever it is it stated that you need it (intact or alive as much as possible). Can you read or listen carefully to your mission status? Ammo and supply helps but it is far from enough.

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Hangfire7 09-07-2008, 12:35 PM Ah but the tac entry is required by the need for your party to gain "The Package." Thus, you need to get it from those holed up somehow. And that calls for either eliminating the enemy to a man. Like your idea as well as mine, force them out, or let them make a break for it and cut them down in the open as they dash for cover/safety from the heavy machinegun fire and grenades.


Or you whittle them down inside via well placed bursts from the machineguns, sniper fire, the odd grenade and aimed rifle fire on enemy concentrations that do not have or endanger "The Package." Once that has been accomplished, then you need to send in the team to take posession of "The Package."


The Package changes the entire dynamic of the operation.




Given the List of manpower and equipment you should be able to root out 10-12 Marauders. Lets look at what is available closely.


6-10 PC's

2-4 NPC

Thats 8-14 people depending on the situation.


Heavy weapons:

1-.50 cal Machine gun

3-RPG rockets (probably HEAT)


Medium weapons:

1-.30 cal Machine gun

1-M203 grenade launcher (probably HE)

1-.30 cal Sniper rifle/DMR

12-Frag grenades


Light weapons:

8-14 Assault rifles or SMG to equip the unit


Non-lethal:

2-3 CS grenades


Other:

1-HMMWV


Looks like there are a lot of outbuildings and concealment around the school. So those are good positions to put men in to surround it. With the heavy weapons available to the unit you could just destroy the building if worse comes to worse. But I think that given the open position of the school and its brick and plaster construction the .50 cal machine gun and .30 cal machine gun can basically turn it from cover to concealment. I would set up positions around the school with the Humvee and the 50 in the front but far enough away that they can't easily hit it the 50 out ranges any weapons an Infantry unit might have (other than an Anti material rifle). Then Light them up with the .50 if they try to return fire they get shot up by the GPMG, sniper and riflemen. Or until they realize they aren't really safe inside from the 50 and decide to evacuate the position. Of course you have it covered from all sides so if they attempt to leave they get cut down while trying to find new cover. If that doesn't work and they just sit tight then use the M203 and lob HE rounds into the windows and chuck frags if you can get close enough to use them. Worst case scenario you blow it up with the RPG but lose whatever it was inside that you needed to get.


No reason to make a tactical entry or use house to house fighting....its not like the school has any value as far as infrastructure is concerned and you don't have to worry about collateral damage also there are no non-combatants in a total war.


I would think of it using tactics more like ww2 than fighting of today. Because unlike today you have no support. And unlike today who cares what you damage. And you don't have to worry about what the world community might think of your tactics you just have to get the job done.


Brother in Arms

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chico20854 09-24-2008, 05:55 PM There's a new tactical problem up in Kato's forum!

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