[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

We have a pretty small sample size to be declaring any certainty in canon. Yes, the bases avoided major targets - i.e., military bases and cities. But we don't really have a great idea how densely packed everything is in the "safe zones", and when you really come down to it, that is where the heart of the Project has to be. Can't do much more than recon Chicago until you have a logistics chain able to reach into the city.

We know that the logistics system started at the top with Prime Base coordinating. The Regional bases are approximately ten in number, and that these were supplemented by an unknown number of unmanned Delta bases, plus Team caches. This indicates that there are not a lot of bases……… consolidation of the resources being consistent with a CEO / Corporate Board approach to running an operation.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

And again, canon lets us down - I have absolutely no idea who the heck TN-7 and TN-6 were meant to serve. Their placement seems absolutely pointless.

TN-7 is a power plant that will aid in the recovery of Las Vegas, Hoover Dam, and that portion of western AZ and southern CA. In addition, TN-7 is supposed to broadcast power up to Morrowsat that will direct that power in the form or microwaves to a power reception team. That is presumably to jump start recovery anywhere the grid is down, or restart a plant such as a nuke power plant from a cold start. There is one power reception team in Seattle.

TN-6 is clean drinking water and water for agriculture surrounding Las Vegas as the Colorado probably wasn’t going to be usable in the 3-5 year plan.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Suspension, wheels, and hubs: I already mentioned as being reasonably compatible, but also the kind of thing where you could stock spares easily.

Yes, you can. In what quantity? How do you predict wear in a post apocalypse? How do you plan to position spares, when you cannot predict what is destroyed by Soviet ICBMs? Making them cross compatible with commercial systems fits with the plan to assist lawful civilian government. The Project has a lot of resources but, doesn’t have anywhere close to the number of personnel required. It was essential to the Project to aid the survivors but, get the survivors working and assisting in their own recovery. The Morrow Project is hundreds of personnel at best. Prime Base is the largest with only 250, and Combined Group Seattle is 79 persons for a metropolitan area which could have 100,000 survivors.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Drivetrain, transmission, differentials, wiring components: All are tossed when you talk about MPV's and other electric vehicles - something that the real world vehicle does not have to address!

No, they are not. Purpose built electric vehicles in some cases, which is part of why they are ridiculously expensive…. Each part is custom and particular to them.

An MPV is a engine conversion only….. the drive affects the transmission, then the differentials, then the drivetrain, then the hubs if it has them. That way you retain the offroad performance. It is only an engine swap.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Seatbelts and lighting: Absolutely compatible, but hardly mission critical. If you can't bodge up a replacement seat and a set of lights, then the problem isn't parts, it's know-how.

It is when you have to manufacture or purchase in complete secrecy and completely off books. Hiding and extra 20 transmissions in a fleet purchase of 100 or 1000 is far easier than 20 transmissions that fit nothing in your inventory.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Don't need or want a transmission with an electric motor. Just one more thing to fail for no real advantage.

In conversion you do. The drive train is still there, these are not electric motor hubs.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Sure, but the DoD doesn't demand compatibility with civilian platforms. They like it, but every RFP I have seen has placed such concerns secondary to a bunch of other factors.

The manufacturer does it anyway. The engines, transmissions and most of the components are compatible with heavy hauling or construction equipment. Those Cummins and Continental diesels are very common out there on job sites. This, transmissions, alternators, shocks, springs, gears, exhaust systems…… When an RFP comes out that a defense manufacturer can’t just pull of the shelf to meet the specifications the manufacturer demands money and lets the government pay for the R&D. The manufacturer then uses that knowledge to improve their civilian line and market to those that can use them…………. Those big diesel pickups everywhere right now are using engines found in Humvees.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I know - personal switch. The presumed size of the Project with the actual size of the US suggests that one MPV-teams are going to die at (to me) an unacceptable rate waiting for that other team a hundred miles away to get the message and get there. You won't have much time to wait if the reason for vehicle failure is "enemy fire".

The Combined Groups were supposed to operate together…….. The only one out on a limb here realistically is Recon.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Great! So stash a cache in those facilities - why does that require compatibility with civilian vehicles?

Cost…….. the Project has to buy a lot of vehicles and a lot of spares. You can have ten Strykers for $1.5 million apiece or you can have 150 of these. Do you sideline Project Members because you could not procure enough Strykers…… Strykers are big fat hippos that don’t do well in urban or dense forest terrain.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

So edit the gear. The lists in the books were made by, well, game designers. Real engineers and strategists would have an idea of how often parts would fail in combat and non-combat use, and would distribute spares accordingly. So adjust the caches. You don't have to give details - just list "MPV repair parts", and decide on a case-by-case basis if that should be there. And if that sounds arbitrary it is no more so than deciding that this truck mechanic happens to have a 2009 automatic 5-speed F550 transmission!

Which is a GM choice for gameplay but, your average MP gamer is obsessive about detail and demands reasonable, plausible explanations for why, and how things are.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

A civilian fleet with machineguns and anti-tank missiles and armored personnel carriers and with a high percentage of military veterans. Defense contractors are also completely civilian ventures run by businessmen... but if this is their job, they learn about it and listen to experts. This is literally a fate-of-the-world venture, why would there be any amateurism about it?

Actually look at 3rd again…… without fudging rolls of the dice, it isn’t that easy to be a veteran outside of MARS. The only veteran MP character I can think of without going throught modules with a comb is the leader of TN-7.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Okay... had not heard that before. Interesting variation which implies that Morrow appears only once? That is rather tragic, as it implies that everything is futile...

It means that he tries but, the circumstances are different in each variation. That and it seems that like the Terminator series, the War is inevitable, all he can affect is how much is preserved and how well the recovery performs. He is doing the same thing in more than one dimension on more than one earth trying to affect variations of war, nuclear war, and bio warfare.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Regardless, certain trends would be safe and at least as consistent as the war itself - "this is a computer and the components - watch for these and invest heavily" or "these are some ideas that technology can enable - this thing called facebook makes a killing, so either invest in it, or start it!"

In some of the Canon materials Bruce is a brilliant financial investor and that is how he gets it started and brings the Council of Tomorrow together. There is only one Bruce and he has other things to do.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

And I just don't think a stock F550 is going to be up to the demands of the Project. It's a cost-saving measure, not a performance measure. And with the Project, performance has to come first!

I don’t…… In the 3-5 year plan highways and roads are still going to be there. Only in the bombed out areas are you going to need heavier and there is little sane reason to venture in.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

No it isn't, but there is a reason it isn't built on an F550, either! Seriously, even mid-grade military components are built to performance standards that leave non-competitive civilian counterparts way behind. And the Stryker and Hummer are built on the assumption that one of the largest logistical operations in the history is maybe 10-20 miles away ready to offer a rescue and repairs. An F550 is built under even milder assumptions.

Strykers and Humvees rely on mechanics organic to the unit operating them and larger maintenance unit in theater if not based out of the same locale……… Humvees break with the same or more regularity than anything on the street…… I would argue more so having operated heavy equipment….. A civilian company won’t buy parts from a shoddy manufacturer, the DoD is struck with whoever was the lowest bidder until bidding can open again. Seriously, where do you get this idea that Humvees are really robust? I drove and maintained M1025s and M1114s in the Army for 15 years……..It can be amazing how shitting the parts are.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

It actually IS consistent with my current homebrew - the only vehicles I use that are not current US inventory are the Science-One (because I couldn't figure out a replacement and wanted it in the game) and the JLTV, which I fudged as being "very-near-future" US inventory.

So how does your Project purchase or build hundreds of JLTVs in the 90s, when no one is using them? And it is a secret from the Government and the Public?

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

And canon makes no sense here*. Why waste resources building equipment that will never be used when you have a rough estimate of when the war happens? Build training mockups, build the actual vehicles later. The whole update plan is absurd. They can build freeze tubes and fusion reactors, but they can't build an MPV their first time around??

They don’t have such an estimate because the circumstance that can be the War are always evolving. They know it is going to happen but, the date still catches them unprepared. That is why there is bolt holes and caches from the 50s (Legacy, 4th) and the 60s and 70s (3rd).

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

I've never had this problem. I've always been able to get the characters out of the vehicles if I needed them out, and have always tried to give them realistic options and consequences of their behaviors, and if they didn't get it after a few tries I don't think I would keep going with that campaign. Not every group of players get every game, and if they really aren't getting it by the third session then this is not the game for them!

Meh, I just couldn’t get them out of adventurer mode into builder/defender/preserver. Different mind set developed in other game systems.

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

*: Or any other places, either. TMP was, IMO, a great idea, but it was poorly executed. More than any other game, this system and story leave me scratching my head. It exists solely as a puzzle, not for realism, and the problem with that is that puzzles are notoriously hard to expand on if they don't make sense!

It was written in the 70s when the only others was Aftermath and Gammaworld……. It is great for one shots and has rules and background enough for playing at GenCon and DragonCon. Who knows where is could have gone if the popularity and fan base had been larger.