[cosmicfish]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Yes, you can. In what quantity? How do you predict wear in a post apocalypse? How do you plan to position spares, when you cannot predict what is destroyed by Soviet ICBMs?

First, the inability to be exact or even accurate does not mean you don't make an estimate. Second, you have control over your own stores, you don't have control over what survives on the surface, nor over what happens to those parts in the 5 years you're sleeping in the tubes.

On pg 12, 3rd edition, it indicates an expectation that civilian vehicles and weapons will be largely nonfunctional because of a lack of parts and an inability to manufacture new ones... this flies in the face of the "we'll find parts" argument.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Making them cross compatible with commercial systems fits with the plan to assist lawful civilian government.

Only if you intend to turn MPV's over to civilian government.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

The Project has a lot of resources but, doesn’t have anywhere close to the number of personnel required. It was essential to the Project to aid the survivors but, get the survivors working and assisting in their own recovery. The Morrow Project is hundreds of personnel at best. Prime Base is the largest with only 250, and Combined Group Seattle is 79 persons for a metropolitan area which could have 100,000 survivors.

I know this was addressed by someone already, but unless there is some reason to believe that Seattle was either over or under represented in assignment of teams, TMP should have field personnel in the low tens of thousands, NOT counting any assets not assigned at the "group" level.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

No, they are not. Purpose built electric vehicles in some cases, which is part of why they are ridiculously expensive…. Each part is custom and particular to them.

An MPV is a engine conversion only….. the drive affects the transmission, then the differentials, then the drivetrain, then the hubs if it has them. That way you retain the offroad performance. It is only an engine swap.

Do you keep the exhaust system? Of course not! Why keep something that serves zero purpose and is dead weight? The transmission is even worse because it is not only useless but adds a point of failure in your drivetrain! You need the differentials and hubs, they serve a purpose in every vehicle, but with an electric motor you could literally replace the transmission with a straight rod and be far better off. And if you can build custom reactors and motors, that rod should be trivially easy.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

It is when you have to manufacture or purchase in complete secrecy and completely off books. Hiding and extra 20 transmissions in a fleet purchase of 100 or 1000 is far easier than 20 transmissions that fit nothing in your inventory.

My comment about seats and lighting is that you can make do with stock, or commercial, or whatever, because that equipment is not only not mission critical, the way they interface with the rest of the vehicle gives you lots of latitude in field repairs.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

In conversion you do. The drive train is still there, these are not electric motor hubs.

If you are doing the conversion in your garage, yes, you do. If you are doing it as a proof of concept for a few vehicles, sure. If you are doing it large-scale, no, you don't - it's a handicap that is too cheap and easy to remedy.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

The manufacturer does it anyway. The engines, transmissions and most of the components are compatible with heavy hauling or construction equipment. Those Cummins and Continental diesels are very common out there on job sites. This, transmissions, alternators, shocks, springs, gears, exhaust systems…… When an RFP comes out that a defense manufacturer can’t just pull of the shelf to meet the specifications the manufacturer demands money and lets the government pay for the R&D. The manufacturer then uses that knowledge to improve their civilian line and market to those that can use them…………. Those big diesel pickups everywhere right now are using engines found in Humvees.

They're doing it for cost control, and only where they can still meet specifications. Often, they flow military to civilian as a way of spreading costs and also to provide an outlet for parts that don't meet milspec - just because the military thinks it inadequate doesn't mean that people won't buy the parts for less rigorous applications!

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

The Combined Groups were supposed to operate together…….. The only one out on a limb here realistically is Recon.

Sure... but they are still tremendously spread out, considering the treacherous nature of post-apocalypse travel and the lack of air support. While the teams are supposed to support each other, they aren't necessarily supposed to travel together, disregarding cases like linked MARS/Science teams (although even they have separate boltholes!). And if your vehicle goes down, rescue requires that there be a team near enough to help, able to reach the area (which might preclude SK-5 teams), and able to provide the military, mechanical, or transport assistance you need before you die. I consider that a big risk for teams, but as I said, not the biggest issue.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Cost…….. the Project has to buy a lot of vehicles and a lot of spares. You can have ten Strykers for $1.5 million apiece or you can have 150 of these. Do you sideline Project Members because you could not procure enough Strykers…… Strykers are big fat hippos that don’t do well in urban or dense forest terrain.

I still don't see any reason to believe that TMP was or should be cost constrained. Nor do I see how the V-150 is a superior choice.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Which is a GM choice for gameplay but, your average MP gamer is obsessive about detail and demands reasonable, plausible explanations for why, and how things are.

How about because sometimes, mechanics don't have your part in stock. Or how about because a ton of other F550's, operating under conditions they were never meant to handle, have used up all the parts you are looking for? Or how about because parts are so rare and valuable that they aren't giving them up for anything the team is able and willing to part with?

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Actually look at 3rd again…… without fudging rolls of the dice, it isn’t that easy to be a veteran outside of MARS. The only veteran MP character I can think of without going throught modules with a comb is the leader of TN-7.

If we take the listed odds and apply them to CG Seattle, I get a total of 26 veterans, 14 with combat experience. That assumes 8 MARS (6 vets, 4 combat), 19 recon (10 vets, 5 combat), and 52 "other" (10 vets, 5 combat). That isn't that rare. 33% of CG Seattle are vets, and 18% have seen combat. I think they would have an idea what they were doing.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

In some of the Canon materials Bruce is a brilliant financial investor and that is how he gets it started and brings the Council of Tomorrow together. There is only one Bruce and he has other things to do.
I don’t…… In the 3-5 year plan highways and roads are still going to be there. Only in the bombed out areas are you going to need heavier and there is little sane reason to venture in.

He doesn't have much else to do, and regardless he doesn't need to have a ton of information for Morrow Industries to be wallowing in money. Nor is that information (even the generalities) hard to transport. Heck, even if the universes are pretty different, commercially lucrative inventions should still transfer with high fidelity - in other words, if Morrow Industries has Apple's OS and Google's algorithms and Facebook's idea, they can make a killing.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Strykers and Humvees rely on mechanics organic to the unit operating them and larger maintenance unit in theater if not based out of the same locale……… Humvees break with the same or more regularity than anything on the street…… I would argue more so having operated heavy equipment….. A civilian company won’t buy parts from a shoddy manufacturer, the DoD is struck with whoever was the lowest bidder until bidding can open again. Seriously, where do you get this idea that Humvees are really robust? I drove and maintained M1025s and M1114s in the Army for 15 years……..It can be amazing how shitting the parts are.

And the vehicles referenced here rely on mechanics as well, and operate under far, far gentler expectations. Police specs are usually in-between civilian and military specs. And Morrow is not the DoD - they don't have to buy shoddy parts either, especially since they are more likely to be making them.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

So how does your Project purchase or build hundreds of JLTVs in the 90s, when no one is using them? And it is a secret from the Government and the Public?

In my version (set a few years from now), they are building them in tandem with the official military vehicles - they wouldn't be secret. If I was setting the TMP in the 90's, then there would be extra Hummers being shipped around, which would be a heck of a lot less strange than a bunch of vehicles which have no business on US roads in the first place, like XR311's and V-150's.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

They don’t have such an estimate because the circumstance that can be the War are always evolving. They know it is going to happen but, the date still catches them unprepared. That is why there is bolt holes and caches from the 50s (Legacy, 4th) and the 60s and 70s (3rd).

I don't recall where it said that the rough date of the war was unknown.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

It was written in the 70s when the only others was Aftermath and Gammaworld……. It is great for one shots and has rules and background enough for playing at GenCon and DragonCon. Who knows where is could have gone if the popularity and fan base had been larger.

There are lots of reasons why the popularity was not high - a clunky system, a setting that didn't make a lot of sense to many people, etc. From what I have seen, the 4th edition does not really improve on this.