View Single Post
  #1  
Old 03-15-2010, 02:23 AM
kato13's Avatar
kato13 kato13 is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, Il USA
Posts: 3,355
Send a message via ICQ to kato13
Default Military Region V: Part One

************
DeaconR

Military Region V

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: this is my version of it for my game. I'm still working on it but I'd appreciate feedback.

Military Region V

By 2014 this region, consisting of Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, Wyoming, South Dakota and Minnesota has become a military region in name only. Many of the commands are a lot smaller than intended, and are hundreds of kilometers apart. With fuel so precious a commodity and communication systems still badly damaged, maintaining contact is extremely difficult. Only a strong sense of need not to give up, loyalty to the President and the strength of the remaining loyal commands has kept it going at all. One fortunate aspect is that food is not as scarce as in other regions. While certainly the luxuries of the past are an all but forgotten dream, no one starves in the organized areas or cantonments.

Marauders are a problem. In western Nebraska, scattered throughout Kansas, Missouri, and in parts of Wyoming and South Dakota the marauders have till recently been very active on the roads. Most of them have settled down, either to become petty warlords or simply squatting with their gains in some ruinous hellhole till they run out of goods and must take to the road again. It was a hard winter and no one really wanted to move around much. Nevertheless outside of the patrolled and defended areas small communities are as wary and fortified as communities in the Middle Ages, inclined to shoot at any strangers who do not identify themselves, and inclined to run those off unless they are persuasive.

Government has largely been reduced to the local level. Mainly, loyal Civgov enclaves are centered around Pierre, South Dakota; Duluth, La Crosse, International Falls and Minneapolis in Minnesota; Ottumwa and Decorah in Iowa; Moberly and Hannibal in Missouri; Omaha, Lincoln, Cedar Rapids, Ogallala, Broken Bow and Scottsbluff in Nebraska. There are also enclaves that have no loyalty to Civgov. These include the School Brigade operating in Southern and Western Kansas; the native American independence groups in western South Dakota; a largely white and non-native population in Rapid City (both groups of communities despise Civgov for the attempt to nationalize resources in South Dakota the year before); a warlord who has rather successfully set up operations in Topeka and the area surrounding it. Outside of these main safe enclaves are small family groups or fortified farms, refugees hunkered down in ruins and in squalid encampments, marauder groups and crazies.

Milgov is regarded with some resentment by some locals, who believe that if only the Chiefs of Staff would get over their stubborn pigheadedness the country could get back together again. In particular rumors that Milgov has no intention of ever holding elections has made people wary of the idea of living under military dictatorship. It is a bit different for those who travel a lot or are serving in uniform; it has come to seem a rather pointless conflict and some are relieved that fuel is scarce enough to make contact very irregular. Nevertheless there are some on both sides who for whatever reason are very eager to pursue conflict. While there have been irregularities abroad such as in the newly refurbished Military Region One which blend Civgov and Milgov forces, this has mostly taken place in areas where people are in irregular contact. In the heartland of Civgov it is a given that Milgov refuses to recognize the rightfully elected President of the United States. That being said, there are also negotiations going on to at least have both governments work together. The only real result of this is that units making contact are advised to ask questions first and shoot later.



The Nukes

Hot Springs, South Dakota: this was a miss aimed at Ellsworth Air Force Base, resulting in death for many from fallout and resultant disease and famine.

Offut Air Force Base, Nebraska: this direct hit caused death and destruction in this area. The roads became choked with sick and dying refugees. Fallout levels came down to acceptable ranges and the city of Omaha was resettled first by refugees and then by the Civilian Government.

Salina, Kansas: the missile array near this town was destroyed by a nuke launched by the Soviets, resulting in Salina becoming a ghost town. A few sick and dying people remain.

St. Louis, Missouri: destroyed by nuke.

Kansas City, Missouri: destroyed by nuke.

The other results of the nuclear attacks in this region are: people and animals with cancerous diseases; areas where plants and insects have mutated; infertility; huge dust storms, sometimes carrying dangerous radiation in the more open areas.

Federal Operations in Military Region V

President Broward appointed his own Chiefs of Staff and his own Secretary of Defense. These are with him in Omaha. Ironically there are probably enough staff personnel to outnumber the MPs and the Presidential Protection Detail put together. Most current operations involve protection of salvage operations, maintaining lines of supply and communication, and guarding important assets, not the least of which is the person of the President.

The CIA’s role in the Milgov/Civgov split is well known. However, it is a much reduced intelligence agency. It is forced in many ways to rely upon means used in earlier times, which has required them to hire and recruit new kinds of analysts and field operatives. Right now they are occupying a community college building in Omaha.

The FBI is an anomalous organization; they play both sides of the fence to some extent. The FBI had personnel in all major cities and a number of smaller ones, and has managed to maintain some contact with those who have survived. Most of their operations involve dealing with the black market, New American and other separatist and terrorist plots, and occasionally assisting local police. A number of agents in the field have simply become part of local police where such still exists, having been unable to contact their organization. The director has headquarters in a former insurance building in Omaha.

The Congress of the United States is much reduced. Only perhaps a quarter of the Senate and House are active, and more may slip away as they realize that their debates and intrigues mean little. The only problem of course is…where to go? Some of these men and women had plans in case of disaster, but others came hoping that they would become the new leaders of the newly revived nation only to find that it is on the edge of collapse. Some of them are effective go betweens between the Presidency and their State, but some are mere ciphers. The Senators from such places as West Virginia, Connecticut, Delaware and Rhode Island are cases in point. For various reasons they represent nothing and no one. Some of the representatives on careful interrogation might be revealed to know little about the States they claim to be from that could not be gleaned from the last published Almanac…if that. Senator Horner of Utah on the other hand is a powerful person representing a powerful state. He is part of a semi-official committee to reunite the USA.

There are currently three Chief Justices who actually survived, and are part of the moral dilemma facing those who would deny Broward his position. Certainly Campbell Ramsey, the senior Chief Justice, administered the oath of office and was appointed by President Tanner’s predecessor. Whether this was considered opinion, desperation or what no one knows, but the redoubtable judiciary is certainly part of Horner’s “Committee”.


Military Region V OOB

HQ: Omaha, Nebraska (commanded by a Lieutenant-General, who is in turn subordinate to the Commander of DefCom. The various area support commands, bases whoses staffs had survived but had been forced to evacuate areas were used to fill ranks and also to build a staff following the disaster)

HQ Units
530th Military Police Battalion (400)
809th Quartermaster Battalion
89th Ordnance Battalion
89th Transportation Battalion
424th Maintenance Co
331st Medical Group
806th Chemical Detachment

(note: most of these are at ¼ strength only since most of them have provided extra personnel for required skills to other units in the area.)

644th Area Support Group
(consists of the 367th Combat (light) Engineer Battalion, 212th Quartermaster Company, 302nd Maintenance Battalion, 322nd Maintenance Company, 417th Maintenance Company, 451st Army Band, and the 704th NBC Recon Company. While none of these units would be considered traditional ‘line’ units nevertheless given modern conditions of war all were given training in combat operations and thus found themselves having to administer what degree they could of law and order in Minnesota when the heavens fell, as it were.)
Subordination: Military Region V

Manpower: 1200
AFVs: None.

134th Infantry Regiment (what remains of the 67th Infantry Brigade)
Subordination: Military Region V
Nebraska
Manpower: 600
AFVs: same as above.

35th Combat Engineer Brigade
Subordination: Military Region V
Missouri
Manpower: 1200
AFVs: 6 M728 CEVs, 4 M5 ARVs,

B Battery, 3/49th Artillery Regiment
Subordination: Military Region V

Manpower: 100
AFVs: 2 155mm SPH

Presidential Protection Detail
(consisting of elements of the 3rd Regiment, the Old Guard; USMC Presidential Guard Company, and the Secret Service protection unit)
Subordination: The Office of the President

Manpower: 300


DeaconR





************
Law0369

the presidentail security company? there is no such unit marines would side with milgov.
__________________



Law0369





************
Law0369

sorry guard company. also old guard would have never made it out of d.c. rush hour is bad enough let alone nukes going off.
__________________



Law0369





************
DeaconR

Law: (since I take it that is your only comment) how do you KNOW that? I mean, the Joint Chiefs got to Colorado, obviously enough ranking CIA personnel did, so why not elements of the 3rd Infantry Regiment? Since there are only 300 people in that detail there might perhaps be a hundred of them, tops.

Also I have yet to really hear why the Marines would all universally assign themselves to Milgov. Are you saying it is not possible that a commander could decide for whatever reason to serve Civgov?


DeaconR





************
Law0369

Deacon Have You Been To D.c. ? I Work In The Area And Know A Little About It. The 3rd Infantry Is A Dog And Pony Show Unit. I Would Take Them Days If Not Months To Move Anywhere. They Are Not Set Up That Way. Also Yes I Know About Marines And How They Think( Iam One) And Yes If The Jcs Head Was A Marine And He Gave Them An Order They Would Do It.( I Was Told In Past Post He Was One ). D.c Has Only A Few Ways In Or Out . To Get Into Or Out Of Town In Rush Hour Take Up To 3 Hour To Do This. Its 4 To 5 Lanes In Each Direction And It Is Clogged Up To The Max. Parking Lot Here. So If Nukes Were Falling All Hell Would Break Lose.
__________________



Law0369





************
Law0369

iAM A MARINE I KNOW WHAT UNITS ARE THERE AND NOT THERE . ITS MY JOB


__________________



Law0369





************
FightingFlamingo

The Old Guard keeps one battalion operationally deployed... when in DC they are absolutely a dog and pony show, but they do deploy OCONUS operationally... IRL they have a bn as part of JTHA now...

Every City between DC and Boston sucks 7am to 10am and 4pm to 7pm... monday through friday sans holiday's... and they still suck then too...
__________________
Cold Blue Steel - the spirit of the bayonet


FightingFlamingo





************
Law0369

Flamingo Goto There Web Page They Have Only One Bn 1st Of Third! They Send Companys Out And The Last 2 Have Gone To Horn Of Africa To Do Secuirty. This Is A New Mission And Per Cannon They Would Still Just Be Marchers In D.c...

Great Guys Dont Get Me Wrong I Just Look At Missions And Logistics.

Its Like Marine Barracks D.c. Great Guys But They Just Have A Ceremonial Mission.
__________________



Law0369





************
FightingFlamingo

My error Law... replace bn with co...

I know they predominantly have a ceremonial function... and yes that would likely have been maintained in Canon...
__________________
Cold Blue Steel - the spirit of the bayonet


FightingFlamingo





************
Antenna

@Law

The work of getting the T2k world covered more then what the books say don't need the comment you give. According to those who has served in war (ie those I know and have known) The first battle tells who gonna be an asset in war and those who wont and all between. Even if nukes fell over DC the Old guard was intended later days in RL to do missions. In to the T2k books there is units that haven't been covered, even nations have been left out in the books. So why won't you take a break from your way of looking on things and give constructive critisism instead of saying noway all the time. You might be a Marine and proud of it, but there are at least Gazzilion things that you wouldn't know a squat about. So those of us that know something about these things and have ideas about incorporate it into our campaigns wouldn't need to know what you like or what. Even a ceremonial unit like 3rd US Infantry Regiment knows how to field strip a weapon and that is somethign to remember that they probably been at the ranges and shoot the rifle to. Also giving the "Mad Max" feeling some o us have about anyone that can handle a weapon would in a post-apocalypse world be either a solider, militia or marouder for any side. So even if the 3rd US Infantry Regiment in RL was "great guys" that only did ceremonial issues. Those issues would change pretty quickly in case of a war.

Antenna
__________________


I can only make one person happy per day...
Today ain't your day...
Tomorrow seems to be a bad day also...


Antenna


Visit Antenna's homepage!



************
Antenna

@DeaconR

Even I have been tooling with the 3rd US Infantry Regiment. According to the web they use carriges from 105mm M101 or M102 howitzers with a 76.2mm Gun linered down to 75mm to fire cermoinail shoots. In my world the 3rd US Infantry Regiment would be as follows according to me.

Manpower: 180
Howizters : 2 M101

Now I write top of my head what notes I remebered and the topic of 3rd US Inf Reg has probably been deleted from this forum.

Antenna
__________________


I can only make one person happy per day...
Today ain't your day...
Tomorrow seems to be a bad day also...


Antenna


Visit Antenna's homepage!



************
shrike6

I've been tooling with the 3rd as well. In my version the original 3rd minus a company (which was deployed to Kenya) was wiped out during the nuking of Washington. It was reformed by Civgov to provide security for Civgov's capital.
__________________



shrike6





************
Law0369

well Sir that is why i keep my comments to things i know about. and i dont put anyone down.


let me explain why about the 3rd infantry and hope this will clear somethings up.

The 3rd infantry is the oldest or one of the oldes units in the army.
there job is to provide secuirty at the tomb of the unkown solider in arlington cemitary. (ceremonial duty)

they have a color guard platoon and certian horse units all platoon strenght.

they also have 3 line companys that provide marching ceremonys at ft. meyer in down town D.C. . the companys are made up of 11 bravo's infantry. so these men have been to boot camp and infantry school. but after that they spend up to 10 hours a day prepairing, doing , or cleaning up after events. these men are not like the household units of the uk that must be able to deploy to war at a moments notice ( ie falklands war). it would take around 6 months of training to get them ready and a influx of new gear. (this is what they do today they goto FT A.P Hill and train there) . so now that we have talked about training lets talk about logistics.

Logistics the 3rd Infantry dose not have a large supply of ammo ,weapons,food or vehicles at there site at FT.Meyer. so they would be just a light infantry unit unable to move fast or sustain themselfs for long. they dont have a large motor pool with tactical vehicles.

Getting out of town. there is only one road out of town and that is the inner capital loop. this road is clogged at the times flamingo stated. over 3 million people goto work there every day and they dont car pool. so now you have an infantry unit stuck in the capitol when a nuke goes off. to me this would mean they would be vapor. now if we wanted to say how they could get out by air? well there is no air base with tactical lift in the area. By rail they would have to fight the 1 million people trying to get out by rail that goto work by this means. by ground as we have already talked about that above.

so sir, no disrespect here to anyone just trying to give good honest advice to people to give them the most realistic profile for the campains. i dont try to always say no and if that is the way i come off iam sorry. Iam a marine and thought that my real world knowledge would help on this forum. i work in the us capitol area and have been to the ft. meyer area and have watched them work. i also trained these men in africa in basic tasks in the spring 2004 when i was deployed there. so i have first hand working knowledge of these mean and there abilities.

Now to anwser the questions about marines. They are taught from boot camp to follow orders from above. if they are told by there officer's to do something they would. the 6 divisions in cannon are overseas and 75% of all deployed units are under milgov control so that is one reason i came to this that they would go milgov. bases and stations in the us would have been bleed dry to replace troops so there would not have been alot of them left here in the usa.

-camp lejeune/mcas new river/ mcas cherry point all are within 25 minutes of each other on the carolina coast . they might band togeter at lejeune and try to hold out. were they side would side would depend on the co of the base and who he knows. if he knows or has worked for the jcs member he would side with him. marine office ranks are small and they all know each other.

Marine corps base quantico was hit by a nuke so bye -bye to them.

marine corps logistic base albany georgia they would band with ft benning due to location. it would be up to who the senior man would be to determine what side they goto.

mcas yuma would either be over run by division cuba/mexican troops or they would link up with the group in arizona that prvious post talked about.

mcas miramar is now in mexican territory

camp pendelton is now in mexican territory

any troops left from southern california would go with 6th army in the sf bay area and for provisinal units.

this is where i come up with that no units would go with civgov . now here is the wild card one or two man recruiting teams would be left all over the usa but the dont have weapons or gear so some might go civgov but they would be one's or two's with no gear or weapons.

I hope sir that this has cleared some things up and and show that i just dont say no but have a reason. like i said in the past i dont mean to offend i just want to put out the best info i can to help you men play a game i love and respect.

LAW0369
__________________



Law0369





************
Antenna

To tell you one thing Law0369 nukeing DC would be the most stupid thing the T2k USSR would do. I have discoussed the T2k timeline with a lot of people with different knowledge areas. "If" USSR canon wise would nuke DC it would be becouse they stand outside DC and that is what is left from USA (If that would happen I think the story that USSR would be able to conqueer whole USA snas DC would be plain silly) or that USA stand outside kremlin and USSR got a SS-[insert apropriate number] ICBM in the red square. If DC would be nuked, there would be a chanse that the president of USA would fail to escape that nuke. So who would be the legimit US player at the peacetalks in a WWIII scenario. The understanding of politics was thought to me in the T2k timeline scenario by a realtive to me that was the strong man in a county with at least 75.000 people living there. Even if USSR would like to have the president made to radioactive dust, there is people that take over the rule by handing the keys to the nation or what ever you would refeer as a symbol of power. The problem comes the day when peacetalks going to start. Sorry we don't have a legimit President in our nation to lead those talks, sorry there aitn gonna be any good talks today. On the other hand if you want to overtake a small countiry you want to pulverize the leaders of that country. Like Pragha-68 or whatever example you want. The solution with nukeing DC as USSR would give more problems later on. Therefore my own story about nukeing DC is not canon wise.

Antenna
__________________


I can only make one person happy per day...
Today ain't your day...
Tomorrow seems to be a bad day also...


Antenna


Visit Antenna's homepage!



************
Law0369

Sir Iam going by what is front of me now ..version 2.2. on page 235 it shows a list of sites nuked.

*washington dc recieves .25 mt ground burst at white house
*andrews afb gets a .5 mt ground burst

these attacks per cannon would beat down the dc. metro area. iam not going by what opinion here just what the book says thats why i had the above stated reasons for 3rd inf regiment.

I dont always agree with canno they do have units mission and IMHO alot of units that would be made on both sides missing but the nuke list is here and it is what cannon states.
__________________



Law0369





************
Antenna

I know that you follow the BYB 2.2. But I don't follow it completely my views of what would be there also differs from every campaign of T2k that I run even, depending on what the goal of the campaign would be even. What I refeer to is my last campaign that going to end this month. Why do you think I change the setup for the campaigns I run, becouse my players do own the books also in one or another way... Of course I have followed the BYB2.2 by the letters from time to time. On the other hnad I haven't seen a map over DC in years and cannot refeer to the yield of nukes going groundbursts and the strategy used by 3rd Inf Rgt in a T2k world. But if I would be a leader of a unit which I know can be nuked I would disperse my unit in that way that at least some of my men would survive to take a lead in post-nuke enviroment. Even if there is a belife in the T2k canon story that nukes can fall it also comes like a surprise for the world when the nukes fall at thanksgiving (this is what I can read between lines in the canon story).

There is no wrong to follow the BYB 2.2 story line but there is no wrong to change parts or even whole setup for the game. At least there is GMs that will change stuff written in the T2k books to suit their own purpose for getting next phase of the game or a future phase also for just your game to be possible and plausible.

If I would have followed what the books told me my own Homepage about sweden in a t2k world would be bound to tell what the Finnish books tell, instead of takeing the knowledge about sweden and ponate it on the T2k world scenario.

Antenna
__________________


I can only make one person happy per day...
Today ain't your day...
Tomorrow seems to be a bad day also...


Antenna


Visit Antenna's homepage!



************
DeaconR

Law, if you don't like it or agree with it, that's fair enough. I respect that you're a Marine and all that, and actually I did ask for feedback. In fact I would like to thank you for going into more detail.

Some points I wanted to make.

1. How do we know who might have been where before the bombs hit? I simply thought that MAYBE there might have been elements of the 3rd Regiment out of town on Thanksgiving Day Massacre. If that's impossible, like they NEVER leave the capital for ANY reason, fair enough. (Though Flamingo seems to be saying that they would)

An example: let's suppose someone is a Drill Instructor at Parris Island. Let's say for the sake of argument that Parris Island was nuked. If I want to have someone like that be a survivor all I need to do is say that he was on compassionate leave or whatever. There are any number of reasons why he might not be there. So I felt that there was reason to believe that this unit would be available.

2. While a lot of your thoughts are very logical, and while I do realize you are offering your advice and such, you did come across as stating that what I was proposing was utterly impossible. As in "you can't survive having your head explode" impossible. Unlikely I would accept, and I would then ask questions about how to go about making it happen. So please don't take it personally when I argue with you. I found your subsequent responses a lot more helpful though in figuring things out.

3. Frankly, I find the Civgov idea interesting. When I first got into playing TW2000 I went for the Milgov thing which is a lot more popular. But I'm interested now in what makes Civgov tick, who's involved with it, etc.

The election of Broward is a controversy, not a shut deal. So I felt that there must be people who respect him, are loyal to him, or who simply have aligned with him for whatever reasons. Who is to say for instance that the small unit of Marines I'm talking about are not say veterans or reservists? Who is to say what weapons they have or where they came from?


4. Why do I want them there? Because frankly I find these units very interesting. I am not an American but I love American history, military history as well. I thought that it made sense for Broward to have some kind of honor guard. If I were to clarify and state that they were lightly armed and mostly serving a ceremonial and personal bodyguard function would that make more sense?

5. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs as far as I know according to game canon is not a Marine. People are getting mixed up I suspect with the Commander in Chief of CENTCOM, who is a Marine according to the game.



Having presented these ideas I'd like to know what you (and others) think.

@ Antenna

Thank you for sharing your ideas with me, I appreciate it. I've also been wondering about who makes up this government, who is qualified to do what, what are they trying to do, that kind of thing. It seems to me that whatever continuity they could create between governments past and the present that they would go out of their way to do it.


DeaconR





************
Antenna

Got to think about it really. Pipes and drums the perfect riotdeterent.

"Prezident Broward the people is rioting in a nearby town".
"I know I send my SpecOps 'Pipes and drums' to win heart and minds, the townspeople want a TV network to send again"

Antenna
__________________


I can only make one person happy per day...
Today ain't your day...
Tomorrow seems to be a bad day also...


Antenna


Visit Antenna's homepage!



************
Law0369

deacon i will come up with some more ideas for you if you want right now working on my masters degree ( online weekend classes ) so on monday i will write some stuff up and get back to you.


__________________



Law0369





************
thefusilier

Well done DeaconR. Where did the 85th Light Infantry Division go?

I also can go with some marines backing the Prez. As far as I know they are not all programmed automatons, but actually have individual thought. In the face of a nuclear apocalypse, everything changes, who knows what people are going to do.

And while this is in no way an attack on the marines... they do have the highest desertion rate out of army, navy and airforce. This shows that universal thought and loyalty is not possible as they are in the end human.

Also I noticed the year was 2014, are you on your own timeline or is this from the canon timeline?
__________________
The Fusilier


thefusilier





************
DeaconR

Thanks fusilier. The 84th Infantry Division is the one you're thinking of from canon; the 85th is in Louisiana according to the vehicle guide. However I had to think about how I wanted things to go and I decided that since this unit was recruited in Wisconsin that it would go there. In my game Wisconsin is part of Military Region IV which consists of Wisconsin, Michgan, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio. My timeline begins in 2010 btw.

@Law: thank you, I appreciate it, and good luck with your degree.

@Antenna: I chuckled over that one but in fact I think it would be good for morale and a sense of continuity to have stuff like that. Whatever one thinks of President Reagan, one thing he did very effectively was to present the fact that he was the President and to restore some of the dignity of the office. Sometimes appearances are a big deal.


DeaconR
Reply With Quote