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Old 12-01-2018, 12:08 AM
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Legbreaker Legbreaker is offline
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Location: Tasmania, Australia
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Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
Does the US not use nuclear weapons on the massive numbers of Soviet and North Koreans in Korea too? And is Australia nuked or just left intact?
Perhaps they do, perhaps they don't. Korea's more Raellus' thing.
I'm still only in the early stages of this project though really and haven't done much in that area beyond assigning perhaps a brigade or so of Australians plus New Zealanders and maybe other nationalities - this was discussed earlier in this thread.
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
Would the Australian government not introduce emergency measures in wartime after at least a year of global warfare, and would Indonesia be immune to fuel and transport shortages?
Of course the government would, but by late 1997 they'll be essentially powerless to do anything all that meaningful over a wide area.
As for Indonesia don't worry, I'll be screwing them up nicely as well. After all, I need to create a reason for them to attack into PNG...
Indonesia actually has a small advantage over Australia - they're somewhat less dependent on food distribution and technology. Most islands are almost self sufficient as it is, so a lack of fuel for transport should hurt them too much. That said, they're also on the verge of overpopulation so any event that upsets the status quo is going to hurt them quite badly if they can't get outside help. At this point (and there's plenty more thought to be put into it) I'm thinking radiation from Pakistan/India coupled with volcanic activity, disease, storms, and so forth will decimate at least the western parts of the country forcing the government to look eastward.
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
Is it Australian or Indonesian troops you are you are talking about in the outback?
A bit of both really. Indonesian presence will be fairly light though and be more a diversion to keep Australian units occupied and away from PNG.
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
Attack by who? Indonesia or the Soviet Union?
Besides the possibility the USSR sent some advisers to Indonesia, I can't imagine why they'd pay much attention to the region. MIGHT find a handful of individuals on the Australian mainland, but they're also more likely to stand out in a crowd than Indonesians.
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
What vital facilities? Oil refineries, pipelines, airports, power stations, arms factories? You don't need tens of thousands of troops to secure these facilities.
No, you don't, not if you know where the enemy are and where they intend to attack next.
Also bear in mind the enemy actions will be designed to create the greatest amount of chaos possible. Not all the troops will be needed to guard facilities, many will be assigned to keep the hordes of civilians in check when the food runs out, etc.
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
You know Legbreaker Australia is hard place to get to by sea, and what about the RAN and possibly other allied ships patrolling the region. I think you are doing your country a disservice by suggesting that the Australian intelligence and policing services and military would not be aware of large numbers of Indonesian entering Australia and not being able to deal with Indonesian fifth columnists running about causing mayhem and then just melting into the general population.
The ocean is a BIG place and we've only got a limited number of ships and planes. With troops in Korea, some of those will likely be assigned there as well.
I'm not talking about large numbers either. It really doesn't take that many people with explosives to damage, even destroy something like a refinery. As I think I mentioned previously, all it may take is one person pressing the wrong button at the right time to cause damage. Of course they're probably only going to be able to do it once, maybe twice before others figure out there's sabotage being carried out by one of the workers....
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
Are Asian-Australians not patriotic to Australia or are they just there to get revenge on Whitey when the times comes? And the government would not mention Indonesian terrorists in news broadcasts and media because of PC policies and other non-Indonesia Australians would not be suspicious if not downright hostile to them?
Some are, some aren't. The actual saboteurs and raiders I envisage being Indonesian soldiers who've infiltrated the country in the months before hostilities kick off. As there's quite a significant percentage of people who've immigrated from south east asia over the last few decades, it will be fairly simple for them to blend in provided they're not walking around with rifles over their shoulders....
There may also be some who've been in the country all their lives who for one reason or another join with the Indonesians, but I really can't see them as being a sizeable number and probably best handled by GM's who want to include a traitor or two in their game.
Censorship will certainly be in effect, but I don't think it's going to matter that much. I don't intend to have the hostilities kick off until late 97, perhaps early 98. By that time I can't imagine much electronic media will be left undamaged due to EMP and ASAT attacks.
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
Also although Australia's big cities are multi-cultured most vital facilities are not located downtown. They are on the outskirts of them or in remoter areas. Australian cities like American cities gets less multi-cultured the further you travel from the downtown core. In the suburbs, smaller towns and rural areas a bunch of creepy Indonesians acting suspiciously are going to stand out like a sore thumb. Also would Australian soldiers not be aware of the security threat or have their hands tied by PC BS when they are aware of an imminent threat from a potentially hostile group in the area.
I've spent a number of years living and working in several Australian cities and am intimately familiar with Sydney's industry and demographics in particular. There are areas you don't go into if you're white, even in the outskirts. Even in the more European areas it's still not uncommon to see Asians, Africans, and just about every other ethnicity as well. The presence of a non-white face isn't out of place at all until you head out of the cities completely.
I intend to open the war with a brigade already committed in Korea, and an Indonesian build up in West Papua to cause most of the remaining regular troops to be deployed there. The actual shooting would commence with a bunch of near simultaneous attacks on refineries, power generation, communications and whatever else seems to make sense. Initial response will be police only - the military won't be called upon for days or even weeks.
Even when the military is called upon, with a brigade in Korea, and about the same in PNG, there's not much left at home. Reserve units generally run at around 10-25% strength - an infantry "battalion" might be able to scrape together a company plus support elements, but they're also spread over hundreds of kilometres. It will take time for more recruits to be enlisted, trained and equipped, and all while the attacks continue, and the governments trying to support forces in Korea and PNG.
Originally Posted by RN7 View Post
Also if Australia is not nuked than you have a functional RAAF well armed by the Americans and you also have functional Australian oil infrastructure to fuel it. The RAAF can strike any part of Indonesia and could and destroy or severely disable most of Indonesia's oil refining and electricity production capacity in 24 to 48 hours.
RAAF by that point will be quite damaged from action in Korea and oil supplies from overseas will have ceased. Yes, there will be attacks made on Indonesian facilities, but the RAAF's strength by that point won't be enough to stop them cold.
Both sides need to still have some capacity for offensive action to fit with canon. Eventually though, perhaps in just 6 months or so, everything will grind to a halt from logistical reasons (just like is said in canon). Troops on both sides will suffer badly when they can't be supplied and potentially more deaths will result from starvation and disease than actual combat!

Anyway, it's still early days with this project and everything's still subject to change. I'm sure during the process I'll find things that make no sense anymore and add, remove, and adjust things.
I can promise I won't publish until I'm 100% CERTAIN it all makes sense and I'm convinced I've done as much background work as I possibly can to make it as believable as it possibly can be.
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

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