[sglancy12]

Originally Posted by waiting4something

When did I ever state "why weren't the New Americans more like Nazis"? In fact my complaining was that they where made out to be like or baised off of Nazis.

Here's where I got confused. You wrote:

Originally Posted by waiting4something

I mean they (the GDW authors) could have made them (the New Americans) dudes that just where anti government, didn't like typical U.S. politics, or waiting for hard times ahead. No they made them to be the typical Hollywood racist redneck militia. And why not build them like the Nazi's they are the popular guys to hate on. Years of movies and TV have taught us well on that. Hell even the film Star Wars had bad guys based on Nazi's.

Bad guys and the groups they run can be different from the nazi's yet this always goes unnoticed, because we are so brainwashed on what we are fed by the media. Hell some other evil could lurk up on us, because we are so focused on nazi's.

I read that sentence I highlighted in bold and I thought that what you were saying "Why not make the New Americans like nazis instead of racist redneck militia?" So it looked to me like you were offering the Nazis as an alternative to racist redneck militia, then turning around and saying how tired and overused Nazis are. Clearly I was wrong.

I guess the problem here is I that don't equate racist redneck militias with the Nazis... or skin heads, or the Klan, or even the Aryan Nations guys. Those guys are not Nazis because they have an inherent and highly American distrust of big institutions and government. They want America to be like they imagine it was in the Mid-19th century: Run by white Christian men, where anyone else has no rights we are bound to respect, and the government can't get in the way of how you dispose of your property. Rugged frontier individualism with a dose of America for Americans and no sense of irony about the fact that except for the redskins we're all illegal immigrants.

Nazis, that is real historical Nazis and not these cheap wanna-be knock offs, don't want rugged individualism. They want to submerge their identity into a greater whole (hence all the spiffy uniforms). They want to be part of the well-oiled machine (like the Weremacht or the Waffen SS). A juggernaut of history reshaping the world (Deutchland Uber Alles). I'm not saying they are robots, but the Nazis (and fascists) of the 1930s and 1940s do not distrust the state. They love the state. They see the state as the only mechanism to solve society's problems.

As for more on who fills the shoes of the Nazis in TW2K...

Originally Posted by waiting4something

Ahhh no. The Soviets were not really in the U.S. except for Division Cuba and the ones in Alaska. The Soviets themselves really weren't made out to be bad guys in this. There were marauder groups that were mainly Soviet that were, but not the Soviets themselves. And spiffy uniforms, come on those things are cheap and ugly.

I meant globally they fit the Nazi's shoes. They start the war, they go nuclear first, they dump their prisoners into lethal gulags, their secret police execute anyone even suggesting that maybe this war isn't a good idea or that perhaps this or that order might not be the best idea. They are the bad guys.

Sure, you get Red Army commanders with some humanity and sense of proportion. But the KGB is an evil organization at it's core. It's going to make sure that the Red Army dies in place fighting for war-aims that are clearly impossible to achieve while the KGB and Party officials sit it out in the backfield. They are the Gestapo.

As for their uniforms not being spiffy... Okay maybe they don't dress as sharp as the SS with those black uniforms with the silver piping... but come on! The Nazis were the best dressed evil bastards in history. You can't top them for style. A direct comparison isn't fair. I'm just saying that their uniforms would be spiffier than the Army surplus that the New Americans would be wearing.

Originally Posted by waiting4something

It seems you just really dig the whole ultimate bad guy evil army thing.

I have my ultimate bad guy evil army thing... it's called the Soviet Union. Sure there aren't enough of them in the CONUS, and if anything I almost feel sorry for the Division Cuba because they are so freakin' screwed. But yes, I dig having the Sovs on US soil so much I'm willing to overlook the logistical impossibility of getting so many of them into Alaska. Go Wolverines!

Originally Posted by waiting4something

Or you you like the idea of white, christian, rural, politically conservative, and not government backed people being the ultimate bad guys?

The history of this country demonstrates that white, christian, rural, politically conservative and self-sufficient has too often translated into "I'll kill you if you try to change things." Sure, we've had rinky-dink leftist terrorist groups like the SLA, the Weathermen, the ALF and the ELF, but they are usually little better than a bad joke. This isn't Europe with its Red Army Faction, or the Red Brigades. Our leftists get university jobs and spend their time whining about America's racism, sexism and imperialism and generally engaging in self flagellation over all of America's sins.

Political violence in America comes more often from the far right, not the far left. It's always been more wide-spread, more accepted, and more organized on the far-right than on the far left.

But that doesn't mean I get off portraying white, christian, rural, politically conservative and self-sufficient folks as the ultimate bad guys in a role-playing game so I can pretend that my political biases represent reality. In fact, I believe that white, christian, rural, politically conservative and self-sufficient is the freakin' back bone of this country. They do all the heavy lifting around here. They're they guys that keep this country fed and most often fill the ranks of the military. In the TW2K world they are indispensable for rebuilding the country. Unfortunately they are also susceptible to New America's message, particularly if the message is wrapped in some half-truths and outright lies to convince folks that they are not really going to end up in a fascist state divided into racial castes.


A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing