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Old 10-07-2009, 06:10 PM
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Mohoender Mohoender is offline
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Location: Near Cannes, South of France
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Originally Posted by Webstral View Post
I'm not sure I understand what is equally true for the US. That we would nuke a country aligned with our enemies regardless of whether that country could fire back? You can bet the farm on it. How does that unhappy fact prove or disprove the Soviet nuking of Australia?
Nothing on Australia, but I simply wanted to point out that if any one could go that far, there was no way back and no possible recover.

Originally Posted by Webstral View Post
I don't at all agree that there is some sort of firm boundary between a Twilight: 2000 exchange and a "Wargame" exchange and that we must find ourselves in one camp or another. The v1 chronology all but states that the level of nuclear exchange is based on what the Soviets feel they can get away with. They blow China to kingdom come because China can't effectively counterattack. The Soviets are more calculating with their nuclear use against the West because the West is capable of counterattacking. Fear of MAD counterbalances the impulse to use enough nukes to destroy the enemy's ability to pose any threat.
Now I understand a couple of things. First, my thinking are inspired by the v2 chronology and it has a different approach on this (at least in the way I understand it). Second, yes there is a firm boundary between a twilight 2000 exghange and a "wargame" exchange; with T2K your PCs are driving fairly damages hummer and you still have some people around. with "wargame", the world population is reduced to a few million s (at most) and your PCs are walking and using stone axes (something resembling it at least). Third, I can buy the v1 but as I played much longer with v2 (got my hand on v1 only three years ago) I have a different approach. Also, I'll never play with v1 but that's simply because it doesn't make me dream (if T2K can give you anything else than nightmares).

Originally Posted by Webstral View Post
Note that Canada gets hit much harder than the US, given relative populations, etc. Canada can't fire back. Clearly, the USSR has decided that the US will retaliate for attacks on Canada to a lesser degree than for attacks on CONUS. If a single MIRV-capable SLBM takes out Sydney, Melbourne, and the appropriate military facilities, the US might not even retaliate. If the US does retaliate, then the appropriate targets would be in a Soviet satellite: the PDRK, Bulgaria, etc. Maybe Indonesia or Vietnam would suffer a couple of US strikes in exchange for a couple of strikes on Australia. At any rate, it's all part of the math. Only Westerners think in terms of absolute firebreaks. According to official doctrine, the Soviets calculate the relative merits of each strike and its most likely counterstrike.
I agree about Canada and always scaled down the exchange (back on "Wargames"). Something else on Australia: as someone pointed out its much further away and doesn't pose a direct threat in term of supply. I also understand the calculation point but when the entire chain of command is gone so is the calculation and things simply go wild. One more point, I agree with what you say on the West and that's why I made the West start the exchange. The Soviets (IMO) would never have started it. The main reason for Australia not being hit may simply come from the destruction of the subs who had to deliver the attack. Anyway, for my part I'm not interested in the reason, I simply like to have it that way. Your point is as good but if I was to follow you I would be much darker than you are.

My PCs would play in a world that would be more chaotic than the one in T2K: entire water supplies contaminated, canibalism everywhere, survivors in US being under 1 million (less than 10.000 in Poland a,d France destroyed); no cars, tanks..., nuclear winter in effect world wide since the exchange, snow to the chest and the best weapon in the group being a M16 with 5 bullets left. Their main problem would not be to avoid further contamination but it would simply be about how much time can they survive with such an important contamination level. Soviets wouldn't be a threat anymore, their fellow PCs would be the threat. As a result, I would not get any PCs and could close the chapter.: I would probably have no more friends any more as well.

Last edited by Mohoender; 10-07-2009 at 06:26 PM.
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