Who'd Have Thought (back in 1984)?

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by castlebravo92

In Russia they have fake elections, in Ukraine they just cancel the elections. Zelensky himself made the assertion recently that upwards of 70% of the military aid sent Ukraine’s way had literally been stolen. Zelensky’s domestic critics don’t seem to wind up dead from polonium in their coffee or falling out of their windows like Putin’s critics, but Ukraine the state is qualitatively not that much different than Russia. It's a corrupt mafia state run by a strongman dictator. The main difference is that Russia is the aggressor in the war and they seem to be committing far fewer war crimes than Russia. And of course the West is supporting them and together it makes them the (relatively) good guys. On the whole I have been supportive of US policy with regard to Ukraine, but I do think we were too slow to give them deep strike capability and a little too lax on controls on the money wr are sending their way. Zelensky’s wife doesn’t need any more Bugatis on uS taxpayers’ dime.

Re the canceled election, again, Ukraine is at war and 1/4 of the country is under Russian occupation. It would be very difficult to organize a national election that would be accepted- in Ukraine and/or the international community- as legitimate under these circumstances. I think it's unreasonable to expect Ukrainians to stand in line at polling places as missiles and drones rain down upon their cities and towns. I am not, however, asserting that they should not be given that opportunity, but it is somewhat understandable, if not justifiable, that under the current extenuating circumstances, a general election has been postponed.

Wartime conditions don't excuse an indefinite postponement of free and fair elections, but to liken the current political situation in Ukraine to that which has existed in Russia for the last three decades ignores some pretty significant differences.

Re corruption. Yes, Ukraine has significant corruption problems, but they were/are trying to correct them. Ukraine's eventual membership in the EU depends on reducing corruption (the EU has explicit requirements for "acceptable" and unacceptable levels of corruption in its member states). The claim that you attribute to Zelensky shows that the Ukrainian government is trying to be transparent and clean up its act. Putin, on the other hand, is the ultimate kleptocrat. The entire economic and political systems in Russia are set up to enrich him personally and keep him in power indefinitely (by also enriching his select allies). Of course, Putin would stridently deny all of this... and then censor, imprison, and/or kill anyone bold enough to call him out in public.

I agree with you that the US should do a better job assuring that its aid- monetary and materiel- ends up in the right hands. Sadly, this isn't something that we've quite figured out how to do, even though the same issues existed during our wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

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