Contus Marauder Equipment

[Rockwolf66]

As I write fiction for fun I sometimes get questions that are Applicable to this group.

One current one is:

What sort of weapons and Equipment would be found in the hands of a CONTUS located Gang/Marauder group?

While I have data for the Top ten firearms used IRL crime for the Mid 1990s. WWIII will radically change the dynamics.

[mpipes]

I think it really depends on the origin of the group and its organization. Quite a few are going to be deserters, and they will likely have their issue weapon. Others are going to have gotten their hands on police/National Guard/military armories or sporting weapons. Most groups will have a variety of weapons, ranging from semi-auto/pump action shotguns to souvenir WWII weapons like MP-40s with little to any standardization. Military M-16s would be highly prized and coveted.
In my campaign, a large number of submachine guns had been distributed into the southwest US to fight the Mexican Army and significant numbers could be found in civilian gangs. These mostly consisted of Carl Gustav m/45s, Uzis, MAC 10/11s, Walther MPL/MPK (placed in production by MILGOV at FN plant in SC), and new built Stens (blueprints widely distributed by MILGOV). Moreover, large numbers of Mexican Army military weapons have found their way into marauder hands - MG-21 and G-3 clones for the most part as well as M-16A1s and a few FALs. Relatively few Soviet weapons would be encountered, but you could reasonably expect captured AKMs and AK-74s in the hands of marauders.
In other parts of the US where the Mexican invasion had not reached, it would be a motley mixture of whatever they could get. In my view, most marauders would be armed with short range weapons in popular calibers. A lot of 9mm pistols and carbines would be found. MP-5s from police especially prized along with M-16s. Ruger mini-14s. Lever action .38/.357 and .45LC rifles and carbines. 30-30 lever actions. 12 gauge pump and semi-autos shotguns. Relatively few scoped, high-power rifles. Significant numbers of AR-15s, as I think both CIVGOV and MILGOV would have issued them out to aligned militias trying to maintain order and many would have been promptly captured (e.g. ISIS in Iraq). A few well organized groups may be standardized (e.g. M-16/AR-15s and Glock 17 pistols), but those would be rare in my view. FALs, M1A1s, M-1 carbines, and the like would be found as well. Larger caliber weapons (7.62mm NATO, 30-06, 8mm, etc) would be rarer though.

[Olefin]

Just to give you an idea of how many guns a marauder group could get their hands on

http://news.yahoo.com/police-probing...24948394.html#

Police probing death in LA find 1,200 guns, 2 tons ammo

Police investigating the death of a Los Angeles man uncovered an arsenal inside his home and garage — more than 1,200 guns and about two tons of ammunition, authorities said Monday.

Los Angeles Police Department Cmdr. Andrew Smith called the number of rifles, pistols and shotguns staggering. Many had never been fired and some were still wrapped in boxes, with price tags still attached


1200 guns - got to love the poor Mexican Army having to face citizens like that

"Well I guess you picked the wrong damn rec room to break into did'nt ya?!"

[Apache6]

I think the guns use by both militia and maruader and/or freedom fighter groups in Continental US (CONUS is standard abbreviation) would be very different from the mostly handguns used by common criminals. Most CONUS marauders would have a pistol (or two) as backups, but their main weapon is much more likely going to be a longarm.

Common criminals use handguns because they are concealable. Long arms are MUCH more effective in actually fighting. Shotguns (pumps and semi-autos) will be very common. A wide range of semi auto rifles (AR-15s, Ak-47s, Mini-14s, SKSs, M-1 garands, M-1 carbines...) would also be common. Bolt action (and a lesser extent pump action and/or lever action rifles would be common among civilians, but unlikely to be used by fighting groups, except for scoped bolt action rifles for long range work.

Mr Pipes stated that "Larger caliber weapons (7.62mm NATO, 30-06, 8mm, etc) would be rarer though." I disaggree, 7.62mm NATO is the same as the .308 winchester round, which is one of the most common deer hunting rounds in the US. The 30-06 is also a common hunting round, and there are a lot of surplus 30-06s out there. Many of these rifles would be equipped with good telescopic sights that would make them into good long range rifles, not neccassarily "sniper rifles" but close in many regards. The remington M-700 rifle is very common hunting rifle, it's also what the USMC's M-40 sniper rifle was based on.

I think that "STEN" gun like SMGs would be very common. They are very easily built. I think many organizations might put them into production and use them to arm their 'troops' or as trading stock. In CONUS I'd expect to see them both in 9mm and .45 (being effectively a M-3 grease gun).

I think many mechanics could build a 'gatling gun' type weapon, and that a battery powered gatling guns in a range of calibers might be a fairly common support weapon.

There are a lot of civil war cannons used as display pieces. Munitions for these could be produced fairly easily. They are not useful against a military threat, but might be an intimidation weapon.

Similiarly I'd expect that a lot of militias and warlords...., would build some types of guntrucks and/or armored cars, and/or field expedient armored vehicles using bulldozers.... Do a google search for killdozer for an example of what a single guy was able to build in a garage.

[Raellus]

AKs and SKSs are common here today because millions of them were sold off by our former Cold War enemies and many of those weapons found their way here to the U.S.A.'s civilian firearms market. In the v1.0 and v2.0 timelines, Soviet Bloc weapons would be much more rare here in the U.S.

You'd probably stumble across a small number (a few thousand, nationwide) of Vietnam War trophies and perhaps some Chicom-made weapons, but nowhere near the number and variety of AK and SKS variants present today.

[Olefin]

One thing you would find would be M1 Garands, WWII issue German rifles, and Springfields - a lot of those were sold off in the 1980's - still remember walking into a Woolworth's in 1981 and finding a whole rack of Garands on sale there -

As for AK's - cheap Chinese knockoffs of the AK would still be around in great numbers

And I lived in LA in the 1980's - if you werent there you really missed one hell of a time to be able to buy all kinds of interesting weapons - still remember when I went to a gun shop and asked for the guns from the Terminator and the guy smiled and pulled out a Street Sweeper and said this was the gun that he should have gotten

[LT. Ox]

I can only give you my experience here in Colorado as a Law enforcement Officer on the west side of the
Rockies. I owned an M-1 Garand, Ruger mini-14 ( modified with a folding stock, four power scope and shortened two inches for Swat) an ’06 four grove 30-06 ( sporterized and scoped) Remington .308 semi auto also scoped, Browning .22 semi auto and another bold action .22
Four different twelve gauge shotguns, one was a Browning semi auto with short barrel (18”) that I carried in the Army another a model 870 for the Sheriffs vehicle. Two sixteen gauge shotguns and a twenty gauge side by.
I had No less then four had guns at any one time and as many as twelve. Mostly carried a Model 19 Smith and Wesson four “. But also carried 1911 Officers model .45 and a Commander of the same caliber, near the end of my time I started carrying a Smith .40.
In our area we had, legally registered, two M-2 .50 ca. l MG one .30 cal. Several (by that I mean over a dozen) various other auto weapons. I was made privy to the information by the FBI and ATF.
It was also believed that at least twice that number was cached here by one group or another.
I confiscated at least a dozen auto weapons between 1978 and 1986 from drug related actions. These were mac and Uzi for the most part but one was an M-2 .30 carbine. I also removed from the street more than a dozen altered (shortened) shotguns.
While working undercover in Colorado springs with a group of Cuban dealers I observed a cache of at least twenty four Macs these were purported to me as being able to rock and roll they also had either actual or non-working suppressors. They were never found when we shut the group down three months later.
That covers some of what I saw here in the years 1978 to 1990. Rumors of much more persisted and still do as a matter of fact.

[mpipes]

Ox,

Any history on the M2?

There quite a few registered or made from registered conversion kits. Quite a few came back from Korea or Nam and registered in the '68 amnesty.

The M1 itself is very easy to convert to full auto. Simply filing down the sear will do it.

As for large calibers in the hands of marauders, those types are primarily looking at short range firepower. Most hunting weapons in large caliber will have low magazine capacity and are bolt action; not that good for a criminal type looking to rip off a small town or isolated farm. To be sure, they'ld be around in such a group but in limited numbers. As for Garands, M1A1s, G-3s, and FAL, that's a big gun that won't be that useful for moving through a house or farm quickly. You want a short, quick handling weapon. Some will be found, but again most in a marauder gang will want something handier. That being the case, most shotguns will be sawed off.

[LT. Ox]

This M-2 was picked up during execution search warrant for drugs, specifically meth; it was a “shotgun news” conversion if I am remembering correctly. Big problem was the serial number (top rear of receiver) had been ground off.
I was not familiar with them at the time but curious about the selector, I had not seen one before.
Both the M-1 carbine and the M-14 could be “field modified” by dropping the trigger group and inserting a piece of twig in the proper location (impeding the sear) it was not selective fire but would fire auto until trigger was released, or the damn twig fell out. We used them in AIT as op force to give us some “extra” fire power during training ambush and counter ambush tactics.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Apache6

I think the guns use by both militia and maruader and/or freedom fighter groups in Continental US (CONUS is standard abbreviation) would be very different from the mostly handguns used by common criminals. Most CONUS marauders would have a pistol (or two) as backups, but their main weapon is much more likely going to be a longarm.

Common criminals use handguns because they are concealable. Long arms are MUCH more effective in actually fighting. Shotguns (pumps and semi-autos) will be very common. A wide range of semi auto rifles (AR-15s, Ak-47s, Mini-14s, SKSs, M-1 garands, M-1 carbines...) would also be common. Bolt action (and a lesser extent pump action and/or lever action rifles would be common among civilians, but unlikely to be used by fighting groups, except for scoped bolt action rifles for long range work.

Mr Pipes stated that "Larger caliber weapons (7.62mm NATO, 30-06, 8mm, etc) would be rarer though." I disaggree, 7.62mm NATO is the same as the .308 winchester round, which is one of the most common deer hunting rounds in the US. The 30-06 is also a common hunting round, and there are a lot of surplus 30-06s out there. Many of these rifles would be equipped with good telescopic sights that would make them into good long range rifles, not neccassarily "sniper rifles" but close in many regards. The remington M-700 rifle is very common hunting rifle, it's also what the USMC's M-40 sniper rifle was based on.

I think that "STEN" gun like SMGs would be very common. They are very easily built. I think many organizations might put them into production and use them to arm their 'troops' or as trading stock. In CONUS I'd expect to see them both in 9mm and .45 (being effectively a M-3 grease gun).

I think many mechanics could build a 'gatling gun' type weapon, and that a battery powered gatling guns in a range of calibers might be a fairly common support weapon.

There are a lot of civil war cannons used as display pieces. Munitions for these could be produced fairly easily. They are not useful against a military threat, but might be an intimidation weapon.

Similiarly I'd expect that a lot of militias and warlords...., would build some types of guntrucks and/or armored cars, and/or field expedient armored vehicles using bulldozers.... Do a google search for killdozer for an example of what a single guy was able to build in a garage.

Plans and parts for MAC-10's abound, the receiver is stamped. Paladin Press and Delta Press have these books and the FA conversion instructions. Not my first or even fifth choice but they have a following.

[swaghauler]

This has already been said but I'll say it again. The 3 most common weapon types (according to BATF stats anyway) are:
1) The .22 LR Rimfire, with there being a virtually even mix of Semi, Pump, Lever, and Bolt guns.
2) The 12 gauge Shotgun, with the pump outnumbering Semi, Double, and bolt guns by at least 4 to 1. In a twist of irony; The Pump only outnumbers the Single Barrel by 2 to 1 (probably due to cost). The most common manufacturers are neck in neck for sales. Mossberg and Remington top the list with their Model 500 and model 870 pumps. The 20 gauge also had a strong showing. The .410 came in last and was primarily bolt or single barreled (mostly for small game).
3) The Larger Caliber hunting rifle, with four primary calibers outselling almost all others. The first (to my surprise) is the .30-30 with the lever action configuration being the most numerous (probably because it's been around for more than 100 years by the war). The second most popular caliber is 3006 with most rifles being bolt action (with a few semi, and pump actions thrown in). Round number three is the .308 Winchester/7.62mm N also primarily in bolt gun configuration. The last round that edged out the others (slightly but still surprisingly) was the .270 in bolt action. The .223 came in 6th in sales (behind the 8mm Mauser, another surprise). I didn't think the list by ammo would look quite like this.

Pistols were no surprise. The most commonly sold calibers were:
.22 LR Rimfire, with there being an almost equal number of Semis, and revolvers.
.38 Special, with the volume of guns being Revolvers
9mm Parabellum, with the majority of guns being Autoloaders.
an almost equal number of users chose either the .40 S&W (a common LE loading) or the .45 ACP in Autoloading configuration.
Darkhorse candidates were; The .380 (Autoloader), The .357 Magnum (Revolver), The .44 Magnum (Revolver), and The .25 ACP (with a slight edge to Autoloaders).
The magazine capacity of magazines would be limited to 10 rounds IF The 94' Assault Weapons Ban is in effect in your world.

The most common "military arms" during this period would have been:
This makes the assumption that the 94' Assault Weapons Ban had passed.

AR-15 and the Mini-14; The AR-15 was severely restricted compared to the Mini-14. Mags would be limited to 10 rounds.
M-14s;these would be available but rare, as they were banned in 94' too. Mags would be restricted to 10 rounds.
M1 Garands; would be more common than the M14 because they were not banned.
M1 Carbines; Would be common as they were not banned. Mags would be limited to 10 rounds during the ban.
AK-47s; would have "thumbhole Sporter" stocks (mandated by "President Clinton" in 93') and would be about twice as numerous as ARs but only about as common as Mini-14s as they were completely restricted by the ban.
SKS Carbines;Surprisingly, these would be as common as AR-15s in America. Although they were banned in 94' as well; Norinco imported more than 10 Million of these before the ban (which is why you see them in the hands of all the "Militias" that formed in response to the ban). They were selling for as little as $100 US in 1990. A common modification was the replacement of the internal magazine with a "duckbilled" 30 round polymer magazine (pioneered by TAPCO) that could be had for $20 US. TAPCO made 2 million of these right before the ban took effect and replacement required only the disassembly of the rifle to remove the internal mag. The weapon could be easily converted back if the need presented itself.
FAL; These battle rifles would be about as common as M-14s. The more popular of the two types in America would be the "Inch Models" built on receivers from England. These outnumbered the "Metrics" at least 2 to 1. The "Inch Models" were more heavily built than the "Metrics" which was believed to promote accuracy. During the ban, "Inch Models" developed almost a cult following with enthusiasts.
SVD/Druganov; A small number of Russian guns and a fair number of Chinese Norinco guns did come into the country but were banned in 94'. They would be here but rare. Chinese guns would outnumber Russian guns 10 to 1 (which is why Russian guns command prices between $6K to $8K today).

There are other models, of course, but these are the most commonly encountered in the 90's (I know because I started my now 200 gun collection in 1991). After the ban was lifted in 2004; There was a veritable "explosion" of assault weapon production. ARs are probably the most common rifle now (but one's choice of weapons is almost overwhelming now).

Finally; A note about 12 gauge "Assault Weapons." The Atchissen Assault 12, The PANCOR Jackhammer, The Remington Streetsweeper, and a host of other "Combat Shotguns" using detachable magazines or high capacity drums were labeled "Destructive Devices" by "President Clinton" through Executive Order and either confiscated or registered as such. Therefore; such weapons will be rare in the US during this time frame.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

This has already been said but I'll say it again. The 3 most common weapon types (according to BATF stats anyway) are:
1) The .22 LR Rimfire, with there being a virtually even mix of Semi, Pump, Lever, and Bolt guns.
2) The 12 gauge Shotgun, with the pump outnumbering Semi, Double, and bolt guns by at least 4 to 1. In a twist of irony; The Pump only outnumbers the Single Barrel by 2 to 1 (probably due to cost). The most common manufacturers are neck in neck for sales. Mossberg and Remington top the list with their Model 500 and model 870 pumps. The 20 gauge also had a strong showing. The .410 came in last and was primarily bolt or single barreled (mostly for small game).
3) The Larger Caliber hunting rifle, with four primary calibers outselling almost all others. The first (to my surprise) is the .30-30 with the lever action configuration being the most numerous (probably because it's been around for more than 100 years by the war). The second most popular caliber is 3006 with most rifles being bolt action (with a few semi, and pump actions thrown in). Round number three is the .308 Winchester/7.62mm N also primarily in bolt gun configuration. The last round that edged out the others (slightly but still surprisingly) was the .270 in bolt action. The .223 came in 6th in sales (behind the 8mm Mauser, another surprise). I didn't think the list by ammo would look quite like this.

Pistols were no surprise. The most commonly sold calibers were:
.22 LR Rimfire, with there being an almost equal number of Semis, and revolvers.
.38 Special, with the volume of guns being Revolvers
9mm Parabellum, with the majority of guns being Autoloaders.
an almost equal number of users chose either the .40 S&W (a common LE loading) or the .45 ACP in Autoloading configuration.
Darkhorse candidates were; The .380 (Autoloader), The .357 Magnum (Revolver), The .44 Magnum (Revolver), and The .25 ACP (with a slight edge to Autoloaders).
The magazine capacity of magazines would be limited to 10 rounds IF The 94' Assault Weapons Ban is in effect in your world.

The most common "military arms" during this period would have been:
This makes the assumption that the 94' Assault Weapons Ban had passed.

AR-15 and the Mini-14; The AR-15 was severely restricted compared to the Mini-14. Mags would be limited to 10 rounds.
M-14s;these would be available but rare, as they were banned in 94' too. Mags would be restricted to 10 rounds.
M1 Garands; would be more common than the M14 because they were not banned.
M1 Carbines; Would be common as they were not banned. Mags would be limited to 10 rounds during the ban.
AK-47s; would have "thumbhole Sporter" stocks (mandated by "President Clinton" in 93') and would be about twice as numerous as ARs but only about as common as Mini-14s as they were completely restricted by the ban.
SKS Carbines;Surprisingly, these would be as common as AR-15s in America. Although they were banned in 94' as well; Norinco imported more than 10 Million of these before the ban (which is why you see them in the hands of all the "Militias" that formed in response to the ban). They were selling for as little as $100 US in 1990. A common modification was the replacement of the internal magazine with a "duckbilled" 30 round polymer magazine (pioneered by TAPCO) that could be had for $20 US. TAPCO made 2 million of these right before the ban took effect and replacement required only the disassembly of the rifle to remove the internal mag. The weapon could be easily converted back if the need presented itself.
FAL; These battle rifles would be about as common as M-14s. The more popular of the two types in America would be the "Inch Models" built on receivers from England. These outnumbered the "Metrics" at least 2 to 1. The "Inch Models" were more heavily built than the "Metrics" which was believed to promote accuracy. During the ban, "Inch Models" developed almost a cult following with enthusiasts.
SVD/Druganov; A small number of Russian guns and a fair number of Chinese Norinco guns did come into the country but were banned in 94'. They would be here but rare. Chinese guns would outnumber Russian guns 10 to 1 (which is why Russian guns command prices between $6K to $8K today).

There are other models, of course, but these are the most commonly encountered in the 90's (I know because I started my now 200 gun collection in 1991). After the ban was lifted in 2004; There was a veritable "explosion" of assault weapon production. ARs are probably the most common rifle now (but one's choice of weapons is almost overwhelming now).

Finally; A note about 12 gauge "Assault Weapons." The Atchissen Assault 12, The PANCOR Jackhammer, The Remington Streetsweeper, and a host of other "Combat Shotguns" using detachable magazines or high capacity drums were labeled "Destructive Devices" by "President Clinton" through Executive Order and either confiscated or registered as such. Therefore; such weapons will be rare in the US during this time frame.

A piece of trivia, the M1 Garand is only banned in New York City. It can be found anywhere.

[Rockwolf66]

Well in my Fictional Setting it's a near Future "Cyberpunk" One. It's not full on People have metal limbs with everything including a mixmaster attached. It's more "Five Minutes from now". Most of the Story takes place in a 100 mile radius of El Paso Texas. Now usually Texas is Quiet compared to Mexico. Normally NFA weapons are rare. In the case of my story you have the Badguys activly hunting the protagonists and are carrying heavier than criminals normally would. Plus one of the badguys has a factory in Mexico churning out little MAC-11 copies. Thankfully most of them are stockpiled and only given out to "trusted associates"

In looking at actual Violent crime figures I'm suprised at how few Violent Criminals are armed.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/wuvc01.pdf

As far as Twilight 2000 goes I can see the number of armed criminals rising and far more than 1% using Military grade firepower.

[Rockwolf66]

Oh and to add to the Information.


http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/filea...pter-12-EN.pdf