Deserters in T2K

[Raellus]

I thought we had a thread dedicated to this subject, but, if that is indeed the case, I couldn't find it. There's a brief discussion here (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2126) but I figured that perhaps this topic deserved its own thread.

I was hoping for a broader treatment of the subject, but Charles Glass' The Deserters is an interesting snapshot of desertion from the U.S. and British armies during WWII. There are fairly detailed profiles of three American servicemen who deserted, and one Brit (in North Africa, of all places).

The first thing that struck me is how desertion/deserter is defined. One of the figures profiled in the book was separated from his unit and joined a group of French partisans, taking part in combat operations against German troops. Since he was AWOL from his parent unit, he was considered a deserter. So, it's very possible that survivors from the destruction of the U.S. 5th ID, for example, could be considered, by the letter of the law, as deserters.

The other thing I learned is that most deserters were men who were either new replacements or whose original units had sustained so many casualties that they consisted mostly of replacements. As a result of such large numbers of replacements, the camaraderie that bonds men together in battle was weakened to the point where a not insignificant number of American and British troops ended up deserting.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

The two examples you quoted make for interesting reading, proving that "desertion" isn't so simple as the definition makes it sound.
Personally I tend to think for the Twilight War that once the "Good luck, you're on your own" order is given, desertion is meaningless in a national military sense and it's going to be defined by whoever commands a group irrespective of whatever legal, national, group size and command parameters used to apply.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Raellus

The first thing that struck me is how desertion/deserter is defined. One of the figures profiled in the book was separated from his unit and joined a group of French partisans, taking part in combat operations against German troops. Since he was AWOL from his parent unit, he was considered a deserter.

That's very interesting. I had always assumed that troops who were separated from their parent units and who joined whatever allied unit they could to continue the fight were ultimately credited with honorable service. Perhaps that was naive of me. If this is not the case, then many thousands of GIs and Filipino soldiers in the Philippines 1942-1944 who fought on as guerillas were deserters. They even disobeyed orders to do so. I'll have to read more on the subject.

[Matt Wiser]

They weren't as far as MacArthur was concerned. He even issued field promotions to guerilla leaders, several guys who were 2nd or 1st Lts. and wound up leading guerilla bands were promoted to Colonel on Big Mac's orders.

[Silent Hunter UK]

There is also of course deserting a unit as the conflict is completely and utterly lost, so it's really just best to go home.

[Olefin]

Thats one place where I disagree strongly with the authors of the game - i.e. that Americans and British soldiers would so easily desert their units - maybe if this was the old US army that was mostly draftees - but by the mid 90's the regular US Army was as professional as the British one was

So you know I do not extend that to units that were either made up of trainees (like the hastily raised light infantry divisions in the US) or National Guard units.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Olefin

Thats one place where I disagree strongly with the authors of the game - i.e. that Americans and British soldiers would so easily desert their units - maybe if this was the old US army that was mostly draftees - but by the mid 90's the regular US Army was as professional as the British one was

I'm talking about late in the Twilight War, Ole. By 2000, wouldn't a lot of front line combat troops be draftees and former REMFs? Those types aren't necessarily your best trained, equipped, and motivated troops. As I mentioned in my first post, being a replacement or among replacements could sever the bonds of comradery that binds military units together. Now imagine that your unit is low on supplies. If desertion was a problem for the U.S. Army in the ETO during WWII, especially when we were clearly winning the war, I can easily see it as being doubly so c.2000. Honestly, at that point, aside from one's buddies, what would be worth fighting for? If your buddies were all dead or you were stuck in a new unit with a bunch of strangers, there'd be even fewer reasons not to desert. It would be endemic.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

To go along with what Rae was talking about, I'd add that the veterans of the Twilight War might have been fighting for about half a decade and by the end of the war, they are no longer simply fighting for their country and/or a national cause. Those reasons have been ground out of them by the attrition of the war and the bonds they feel with their fellows have been created in those years. New people to the unit will be like strangers to them until the new personnel have had plenty of time to prove themselves to be competent and more importantly, prove themselves to be survivors - after years of war, you might be emotionally hardened against the death of your fellows but it doesn't mean you're going to want to befriend new people.

Then on top of all that, you have the devastation of the warzone that British & US troops will have learnt extends to their homelands - they aren't fighting any more to keep their homes safe, their homes have already been attacked and in some cases, destroyed.
I think in those last few years of the war, the psychological stress on British & US troops would be severe enough given the above factors that replacements to a unit could easily feel alienated enough to want to leave and maybe go home. Others might feel that the war is lost and lost by both sides after they started dropping nukes. Some of them would believe that since both sides have wrecked the planet, there is just nothing left worth fighting for.