Has anyone ever heard of this: M72 LAW tube recycled into a mortar tube?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

A "friend of a friend who knows a guy whose uncle was in Vietnam" sort of story: through pretty much that exact channel I heard that late in the war, discarded LAW tubes were turning up in captured weapon caches converted into 60mm mortar tubes and subsequently the order went out that LAW tubes were to be beaten flat before being discarded.

Sounds specious.

Anyone?

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

A "friend of a friend who knows a guy whose uncle was in Vietnam" sort of story: through pretty much that exact channel I heard that late in the war, discarded LAW tubes were turning up in captured weapon caches converted into 60mm mortar tubes and subsequently the order went out that LAW tubes were to be beaten flat before being discarded.

Sounds specious.

Anyone?

The discard tubes were used for any number of things. It wouldn't surprise someone would get the bright idea how to fire a 60mm mortar in them. Yet, they were big for IED type of booby traps for the most part. Due to the fact that many US troops would think anything about a discard tube until someone kicked it or stumbled over it....

[95th Rifleman]

Never heard of mortars but discarded LAWs where used by the VC for a wide variety of booby traps. One common one was to line up grenades inside the tube with the pins out but packed tightly so the strike lever was still in place. They would be rigged in the treeline so a patrol could trip the device, tiliting the tube and letting the grenades roll out overt the patrol.

This was just one of many ways to make use of a discarded LAW which is why US forces where instructed to recover or "make safe" LAW tubes.

[Legbreaker]

Yes, they were occasionally used as one or two shot mortar tubes which is why we were taught to wrap the expended weapon around a tree after firing.
You couldn't get more than a shot or two out of them though before they self destructed, but that one shot may be enough to kill a few of your people.

[dragoon500ly]

Not just LAW tubes, whenever any fire base or Special Forces A camp was abandoned, it was standing orders to remove or destroy any pipes as well. There were also orders to flatten C-Ration cans after use, material just too damn useful as bobby traps.

[HorseSoldier]

And in the boonies a lot of units would leave a detachment to ambush on the site where they'd done a field resupply. NVA would come looking for left over goodies (both of military use as well as comfort item type stuff) and it was usually a good spot to catch a squad or two in the open.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

And in the boonies a lot of units would leave a detachment to ambush on the site where they'd done a field resupply. NVA would come looking for left over goodies (both of military use as well as comfort item type stuff) and it was usually a good spot to catch a squad or two in the open.

From the same source I also heard that LRRPs had a fun hobby of finding AK clips in NVA caches, so they'd strip out half the rounds, pop the slug out of the next round down, stuff the entire casing (including leaving the powder in) with a little wad of C4, then reloading the clips and putting them back...

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

From the same source I also heard that LRRPs had a fun hobby of finding AK clips in NVA caches, so they'd strip out half the rounds, pop the slug out of the next round down, stuff the entire casing (including leaving the powder in) with a little wad of C4, then reloading the clips and putting them back...

Your source had it backwards, when the LRRPs/SOG operators went into the field they would bring AK mags with them, either boobytrapped with a small charge of C-4 with a pull detonator (as the follow rides up, loading fresh rounds....) or with rounds preloaded. If they found a cache or had a contact that resulted in dead NVA/VC, they would drop a couple of mags near the body and sooner or later, some luckless NVA would find a fully loaded clip and thank his lucky stars!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Your source had it backwards, when the LRRPs/SOG operators went into the field they would bring AK mags with them, either boobytrapped with a small charge of C-4 with a pull detonator (as the follow rides up, loading fresh rounds....) or with rounds preloaded. If they found a cache or had a contact that resulted in dead NVA/VC, they would drop a couple of mags near the body and sooner or later, some luckless NVA would find a fully loaded clip and thank his lucky stars!

AH. Okay, gotcha. I heard these war stories ages ago so it may have been explained properly to me, I just remember wrong.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

AH. Okay, gotcha. I heard these war stories ages ago so it may have been explained properly to me, I just remember wrong.

You may have actually remember it the way it was told to you. I'd say its safe to say half of all war/army stories are either total fiction or have a large degree of inaccuracies or exaggerations.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Your source had it backwards, when the LRRPs/SOG operators went into the field they would bring AK mags with them, either boobytrapped with a small charge of C-4 with a pull detonator (as the follow rides up, loading fresh rounds....) or with rounds preloaded. If they found a cache or had a contact that resulted in dead NVA/VC, they would drop a couple of mags near the body and sooner or later, some luckless NVA would find a fully loaded clip and thank his lucky stars!

This was part of project Eldest Son, a SOG program to inject sabotaged ammo into NVA weapon's caches. This program was effective enough that SOG had to have its own AK ammo manufactured in Taiwan because there was concern that using captured NVA mags could result in one of the doctored rounds killing SOG people. (A lot of SOG teams carried AKs or at least equipped their Vietnamese pointmen with them.)

They did it with 82mm mortar ammo as well.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Raellus

This was part of project Eldest Son, a SOG program to inject sabotaged ammo into NVA weapon's caches. This program was effective enough that SOG had to have its own AK ammo manufactured in Taiwan because there was concern that using captured NVA mags could result in one of the doctored rounds killing SOG people. (A lot of SOG teams carried AKs or at least equipped their Vietnamese pointmen with them.)

They did it with 82mm mortar ammo as well.

that gives me a great idea...
time to type up a few charts(ammo types and such.)

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

AH. Okay, gotcha. I heard these war stories ages ago so it may have been explained properly to me, I just remember wrong.

Either way it interesting way to deal one personnel issue...

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Raellus

This was part of project Eldest Son, a SOG program to inject sabotaged ammo into NVA weapon's caches. This program was effective enough that SOG had to have its own AK ammo manufactured in Taiwan because there was concern that using captured NVA mags could result in one of the doctored rounds killing SOG people. (A lot of SOG teams carried AKs or at least equipped their Vietnamese pointmen with them.)

They did it with 82mm mortar ammo as well.

Yeah that would be the major downside of doing this. You wouldn't be able to trust anything captured. All the more reason to keep your weapon you were issued when times were desperate....

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by Fusilier

You may have actually remember it the way it was told to you. I'd say its safe to say half of all war/army stories are either total fiction or have a large degree of inaccuracies or exaggerations.

Call it the fishing story effect...lol

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Raellus

This was part of project Eldest Son, a SOG program to inject sabotaged ammo into NVA weapon's caches. This program was effective enough that SOG had to have its own AK ammo manufactured in Taiwan because there was concern that using captured NVA mags could result in one of the doctored rounds killing SOG people. (A lot of SOG teams carried AKs or at least equipped their Vietnamese pointmen with them.)

They did it with 82mm mortar ammo as well.

The SOG/LRRP teams would also carry small cans of CN powder; it served two purposes, when they buried their trash, a small amount poured in would discharge animals from digging it up. Another purpose was to scatter it on their scent trail when the NVA counter-recon people started using hunting dogs to track down the teams.

They were also found of carrying toepopper AP mines...just to scatter a few on their back trail and take out a tracker or two, especially when the NVA started fielding counter-recon companies.

One of the main reasons why the teams carried AK-47s was to take advantage of human nature. Just think about this, you are some NVA guard and you open fire on a shadow with your AK...they return fire with an AK...now what's the first thought that runs through your mind? Could it, perhaps be other NVA that you are shooting at?

[Jason]

I was at a Texas BBQ on July 4th one time. Lots of M80's and Cherry Bombs. One guy pulled out a M72 LAW tube and started firing home made rockets at the neighbor's cows. :O

He had made the rockets from components normally use to fire hobby rockets into the sky. He handmade 'sabots' to hold the actual rocket 'tube' thingy It was fairly accurate, but no cows were harmed or even hit. He got close enough to hitting one a couple times to get a huge reaction from the guests.

I must say it was badass to watch him fire off the handful of rockets though. This is the only time I had heard of an M72 being reused.

[Abbott Shaull]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

One of the main reasons why the teams carried AK-47s was to take advantage of human nature. Just think about this, you are some NVA guard and you open fire on a shadow with your AK...they return fire with an AK...now what's the first thought that runs through your mind? Could it, perhaps be other NVA that you are shooting at?

One of the most effective means to keep the guards head down until someone who much braver of higher rank comes along to get them back into the action...lol

It why at some levels they tended to look the other way when AKs were picked during current operations. It was discourage, but lack of certain thing and effect on opposing force hearing AK firing on them. Of course, it helps to if anyone in earshot knows you packing AK too, and letting them know where you are so you don't get fired upon by your own forces.

[dragoon500ly]

Its amazing the number of "old tricks" that keep resurfacing!

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Jason

This is the only time I had heard of an M72 being reused.

We did it quite often on the range actually. The tube would be reloaded at the ammo point with a 35mm subcalibre rocket - virtually useless for combat (although it would put a hole in person unlucky enough to be hit by one), but still lots of "fun" to fire with a hangover...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW#Ammunition

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

We did it quite often on the range actually. The tube would be reloaded at the ammo point with a 35mm subcalibre rocket - virtually useless for combat (although it would put a hole in person unlucky enough to be hit by one), but still lots of "fun" to fire with a hangover...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M72_LAW#Ammunition

Remember the hand-held flares that were issued, let's just say that they have an impressive horizontal range!

[Legbreaker]

This I know well, I had to put out the resulting fire once - a long way to run to reach it before it took hold!

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

This I know well, I had to put of the resulting fire once - a long way to run to reach it before it took hold!

Equally impressive is just how wide spread a fire that a smoke grenade launcher can start...