Thinking about Intiative

[swaghauler]

I had the opportunity to try out a newer "hybrid system" of my initiative and the original Initiative system using "Actions" instead of "Time" (the system pioneered by TW2K13) to determine who acts when. To use this system, you first roll for the beginning Initiative Step just like you would in the system I outlined in my post Initiative & Time(post #24) above. This determines the starting Initiative Step ONLY, and EACH PLAYER'S individual Initiative Roll is listed on the Initiative Step corresponding to their modified roll. At this point, the player must determine the number of ACTIONS his character will have for that round.

The players must "modify" their BASE Initiative score (the 1 thru 6 characteristic score they initially generated in character creation) again by the modifiers below to get the number of ACTIONS that they can perform in the combat round. Those modifiers are:

ACTION MODIFIERS:

-1 Seriously Wounded/Fatigued (level 3 Fatigue in the basic rules).
-2 Critically Wounded/Fatigued (level 4 Fatigue in the basic rules).
-1 For Exceeding Coolness Under Fire (I use the TW2K13 CUF rules).
-1 For EACH POINT over Coolness Under Fire X 2 (again using TW2K13).
-1 Surprised.

Each of these modifiers reduces the character's Initiative Score and all are cumulative. If the character's Initiative score is reduced to ZERO, that character CANNOT ACT during the combat round.

Once the number of Actions a character has is determined, the player is given a number of "chips" equal to those Actions (I use Poker Chips). Once an Initiative Step that the character can act in is reached (having been determined by my original system above), the player must decide to Act or Wait. If he or she decides to act, ONE chip is given back to the GM and the player acts in THAT INITIATIVE STEP (only). Any other players who are ALSO acting in that Step are also allowed to act (and MUST also surrender a chip). After everyone is done acting, the GM continues on to the next lower Initiative Step and allows all players who have rolled an Initiative EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN THIS Initiative Step to either Act or Wait. Once again, anyone acting MUST surrender an "Action Chip." This continues until the player's either run out of "Action Chips" or the last Initiative Step (Step #1) is reached.

Determining Who Acts First In An Initiative Step:

Character's act according to their Action Speed. Action Speed is determined by adding a character's AGL + INITIATIVE + WEAPON SKILL LEVEL (if any) and subtracting any weapon's "Weapon Speed" while it is used.

A weapon's speed is its Bulk Rating ROUNDING UP for Rifles, Machineguns, and Heavy Weapons and ROUNDING DOWN for Pistols, Submachineguns, and Shotguns. BULK RATING is determined by dividing the length of a weapon by 15 Centimeters.

The "Weapon Speeds" of hand to hand combat attacks is:
Punch 1
Head Butt 2
Kick 3
Throw or Grapple 4

Players act in a given Initiative Step from Highest Speed to Lowest Speed. If a player is MORE THAN 10 POINTS FASTER THAN HIS OPPONENT, HIS ATTACK WILL AFFECT THE OTHER PERSON BEFORE THAT PERSON CAN ACT.

Movement In An Initiative Step:

A person may move a short distance in an Initiative Step and still act as well. Walking reduces the chance of success of any task by one Difficulty Level. Trotting may be performed but any weapons fire is TWO DIFFICULTY LEVELS HARDER. The Movement Rates for Each Initiative Step Are:

Sprinting: 7m
Running: 5m
Trotting: 3m
Walking: 2m
Crawling: 1m
Climbing: 1m
Swimming: 1m or 2m (high speed)

A player must Walk before they can Trot, Run or Sprint UNLESS they make an Acrobatics Skill roll. It takes 1 Initiative Step to Kneel or Go Prone. It takes 1 Initiative Step to Kneel from Prone and 2 Initiative Steps to Stand up from Prone UNLESS you make an Acrobatics Skill Check.
Players conducting Repetitive Actions move using the older full turn movement rates but cannot conduct differing actions individually by Initiative Step (they can conduct a continuous action).

Weapon Fire Rates per Initiative Step:

I just use the fire rates I listed above. Those rates are for a SINGLE INITIATIVE STEP. Recoil is only applied for that Initiative Step as well.

This system is a bit faster than counting time, and the Action System allows the players to be a bit more flexible in their use of Actions to affect a battle's outcome. For example, a character with an Initiative of 1 who rolls a 6 on his 1D6 roll can end up acting in the same Initiative Step as a character with an Initiative of 6 who rolls a 1 on his 1D6 roll. Both players will act on Initiative Step 7. The difference is that the character with an Initiative of 1 will have a SINGLE ACTION and the character with the Initiative of 6 will still have FIVE MORE ACTIONS TO USE during that combat round. This is a bit fairer than the original initiative system while allowing "high initiative" characters to still stand out in combat.

As always, use what you will and ignore the rest.

Swag.

[Draq]

Applause! 👏

[swaghauler]

As I continue to "refine" my Initiative system during play, I am trying newer methods of counting out a (now standard for me) 6-second combat round.

The latest version is a highly simplified roll. I roll 1d6, add the character's Initiative Score to it, and divide by 2 (rounding up). This generates the number of "Actions" (or Action Points) a character gets per round. This gives just enough "variation" in Initiative to make slower characters viable while allowing faster characters to still stand out.

I'm still counting each Action as 1 second's worth of time (just like in my posts above). All that has changed is the way I get to the character's starting Initiative Step.

Complex/Repetative Actions:

If a character is doing a Complex Action (like sighting a Tank Gun) or a Complex Repetitive Action like driving a vehicle, I allow a number of Skill Checks OR Control Checks EQUAL TO the character's rolled Initiative Score per Round.

-The Driver can make a CONTROL ROLL (in essence, a "reaction" to something) during ANY Initiative Step because it is considered "part" of the Complex Action.
-The Driver can perform a number of Special Maneuvers equal to his Initiative Score during the Complex Action (because they are considered part of the action) BUT cannot perform that Maneuver BEFORE he could perform a regular action (even though the Complex Action actually starts on the first Step).
-The Driver cannot make more Control Rolls AND Maneuvers (combined) in a round than his rolled Initiative Score.

For example: If Joe is driving a Hummer and his Initiative Score roll equals 3, he may make three skill checks or control rolls for that combat round. If he runs out of control rolls BUT is mandated to make another one, the vehicle will be considered "uncontrolled" at this point.

I am still using chips to help keep track of scores. I give the players a number of chips equal to their rolled score and they give those chips back to me when they declare their actions. One Chip equals 1 second of time. For example: If a player declares a snap shot at a Long Range target (3 seconds/initiative steps worth of Action in my game), he must surrender 3 chips to do it.

This system has worked well and I'm happy with how fast it is to use.

[Adm.Lee]

I've been a player in a v2.2 game online this last month, and we got deep into our first firefight last night (We've been very cautious!). The 2.2 init rule was a bit unpopular. The group has myself, 3 v1 players who hadn't played since Back in The Day, and the GM very new to the game. House rule suggestions were called for.

Already a house rule is that the 2nd action for Initiatives 6-7 do not let you move twice in a round. You're fast, but not that fast!

I'm a fan of many aspects of the v2/2.2 system (wounds, repetition & direction, autofire), but the rigidity of it has always bothered me.

My thoughts since last night would be to retain the Initiative as rolled at chargen, but use that as a drm. I'd like it to be a d6 (d8?), so the modifier is still potentially more important than the die roll. If the roll were a d20, then the swing of the die is potentially much more important than the speed of action inherent in the character. Someone with a +6 is still really good in combat, but not the super-human that he is in the RAW. So, the range of actions would be 1-13, someone with an average +3 would have a range of 4-9.

Addition 1: the die is still rolled only at the start of combat.
2. Wounds still reduce the modifier, -1 for Slight, -3 for Serious.
2a. If the modifier goes to 0, you're out for the day?
3. Scratch wounds (first wound of the combat) still cause you to lose your next action.
3a. Scratch wounds also cause a re-roll of the initiative die?
4. If you max out the die roll, roll again for a 2nd action (no modifier this time). Only one bonus roll, you don't get to add more if you keep rolling 6s.
4a. Wounds take this 2nd action out entirely???

This keeps the Wound effects, the possibility of multiple actions (open to everyone, but still very rare).
I may retain Repetition and Commands as RAW.

Thoughts?

[Tegyrius]

I've been using a house system loosely derived from Ambush Alley Games' Force on Force. The intent is that the side capable of generating the greater volume of fire can dominate the fight.

Each side (not individual) in a firefight has an Initiative value calculated as follows:

• 1 per combatant actively fighting (those down, or doing other things than shooting, do not contribute)

• +1 if wielding a light support weapon (UBGL, LMG, RPG)

• +2 if wielding a heavy support weapon (GPMG, HMG, GMG, ATGM)

• +1 if flanking at least one enemy - "flanking" loosely defined as "offset from the fight's main axis of fire by about 90º and able to target at least one enemy without interposed cover"

If a side has surprise, it automatically wins Initiative on the first turn and doubles its Initiative on the second turn. This makes ambushes deadly.

The side with the higher Initiative acts first. In whatever order the combatants desire, each character may choose to act or hold. Resolve all actions.

Once the side with the higher Initiative has resolved all actions, the side with the lower Initiative acts in whatever order the combatants desire. However...

... each combatant who elected to hold may now attempt to interrupt one opponent's action with an attack. I've run that with a tacked-on Tactics skill but I might use a straight opposed AGL check in the future. If the interrupter wins, he resolves his attack before the action he's interrupting goes off. If he loses, he resolves after the action he tried to interrupt.

I have found this to get my players a lot more invested in coordinating their tactics rather than acting as individuals who happen to be present in the same fight scene. Also, after being on the winning side of an ambush, they will go to extreme lengths to ensure the same isn't done to them...

- C.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

I've been a player in a v2.2 game online this last month, and we got deep into our first firefight last night (We've been very cautious!). The 2.2 init rule was a bit unpopular. The group has myself, 3 v1 players who hadn't played since Back in The Day, and the GM very new to the game. House rule suggestions were called for.

Already a house rule is that the 2nd action for Initiatives 6-7 do not let you move twice in a round. You're fast, but not that fast!

I'm a fan of many aspects of the v2/2.2 system (wounds, repetition & direction, autofire), but the rigidity of it has always bothered me.

My thoughts since last night would be to retain the Initiative as rolled at chargen, but use that as a drm. I'd like it to be a d6 (d8?), so the modifier is still potentially more important than the die roll. If the roll were a d20, then the swing of the die is potentially much more important than the speed of action inherent in the character. Someone with a +6 is still really good in combat, but not the super-human that he is in the RAW. So, the range of actions would be 1-13, someone with an average +3 would have a range of 4-9.

Addition 1: the die is still rolled only at the start of combat.
2. Wounds still reduce the modifier, -1 for Slight, -3 for Serious.
2a. If the modifier goes to 0, you're out for the day?
3. Scratch wounds (first wound of the combat) still cause you to lose your next action.
3a. Scratch wounds also cause a re-roll of the initiative die?
4. If you max out the die roll, roll again for a 2nd action (no modifier this time). Only one bonus roll, you don't get to add more if you keep rolling 6s.
4a. Wounds take this 2nd action out entirely???

This keeps the Wound effects, the possibility of multiple actions (open to everyone, but still very rare).
I may retain Repetition and Commands as RAW.

Thoughts?

I'd roll a 1D6 and add it to the Base Initiative. You will be generating a number from 2 to 12 (or 13 for Initiative 7). You can then divide by 2 (rounding up) to determine which Initiative Phase (from 1 to 6) the combatants go in. Alternatively, you could just subtract [a number you select between 6 and 10] from the initiative score and give anyone who still has a positive Intiative score a second ACTION.

[The Zappster]

I quickly stopped the second action. It made the high initiative characters waaaaay to powerful, while the other characters sat and watched the others have all the fun

[swaghauler]

Here's an alternate ACTIONS system that will allow multiple actions per round without much fuss. In this modified Mythras/Legend system, EVERYONE gets 3 ACTIONS. You would still roll [1D6 + Initiative Score] for INITIATIVE to determine the order everyone goes in (with appropriate reductions for wounds, suppression, etc...) BUT each person will now take 1 ACTION (of 3 total each). Each ACTION represents roughly 2 seconds of activity and can be movement, shooting, melee, etc... Once each player has taken their first (singular) ACTION from fastest (highest roll) to slowest (lowest roll), the first INITIATIVE PASS is over, 2 seconds have passed and the fastest Player/NPC now takes their SECOND ACTION. They are once again followed in order by the others until EVERYONE has resolved their SECOND ACTION; at which point the SECOND INITIATIVE PASS is over and 4 seconds have passed. The fastest combatant now starts the THIRD [and final] INITIATIVE PASS. Once the THIRD PASS is resolved, 6 seconds have elapsed and the ROUND IS OVER.
You can also have the number of ACTIONS reduced by suppression or wounds too. For example, you could give a loss of an ACTION for the Critically wounded threshold or being surprised. I like this system because it gives EVERYONE multiple options during a round. You can even rule that activities like reloading take multiple ACTIONS to perform.

Overall, I think this may give you the best balance between player/character "Agency" (multiple actions in a combat round) and the "framework and timescale" you need to successfully run an engaging adventure.