French involvement in the Europe after 2001.

[Abbott Shaull]

Okay with the threads that have been one going.

What would French do to help or not help their European neighbors after the fall of 2000?

Did they (still) have agent working in all level government in Germany and NATO Allies?

What is their view of the Soviets threat poses to them?

What is their view of the Pact Force threat poses to them, remember Italy is to their southeast?

What type of internal struggles would have increase since WWIII started, including issue within Belgium with parts of the nation opposing the Union?

How stable is the French-Belgium Union and how much support do they offer to outside of Europe, besides the situation that are handle in the Middle East Resource Guide?

Is the French Foreign Legion being expanded? How are the recruiting?

Just some Questions....

[Slappy]

I'll toss out some short answers to start a discussion:

1. Help for european neighbors. Likely not a lot in the short term. Internal security and reconstruction seem to be top priorities. Policy at the borders seems largely focused on refugee control. I could see them supporting some local measures near to France because having relatatively stable and friendly areas near the border makes their job easier. Something along the lines of a broad French aid for at least several years seems very unlikey as the French themselves would be unlikely to support it until their conditions improved.

2. French agents in NATO. Probably, but not that many. Networks degraded, communications problems, etc. Still, France can pay and that gets you agents.

3. View of Soviet Threat. Nil in my opinion. I don't see any credible land threat from the Soviet divisions in Eastern Germany. It's not clear they could take out the remaining NATO forces, much less an organized French army.

4. Pact forces. Largely the same. Italy isn't really a committed Pact member and not really set up for offensive action. That and the Alps provide a pretty effective natural barrier from potential Italian invasion. As an aside I think the Italians would fare better post 2k than most timelines give them credit for. They have almost no fighting in on their territory and limited nuking. I see them as a major player in the recovery.

5. Internal struggles. Not an expert, but the Basques could flare up. The flemmish are likely not pro-union but have little ability to argue.

Work calls, so that's all for now.

[pmulcahy11b]

Here's how I view the French after the Twilight War: like the Vulcans in Enterprise. Give everyone just enough help to make them barely useful to the French, but impossible to be rivals. Treat the rest of the world like a bunch of bad little kids instead of a world civilization that needs to get back on its feet in a big way.

[Slappy]

To continue my list:

6a. How stable is the Franco-Belgian Union? Pretty dang stable. The southern half of Belgium is quite pro-french. The other half is being occupied by the best remaining army in the world. Even if you had issues and wanted to start an uprising, being kicked out of the union means being kicked into the dead zone and one of the most dangerous areas in 2k, which is saying something. I think the relative choice of security v. possible political expression keeps Belgium, and just about anyone else, happily in for some time.

6b. French support for areas outside of the area covered in the RDF Guide. Very little in my opinion unless there is something directly to be gained. Examples of things to be gained are routes to ship oil and other commodities, access to raw materials, possible agricultural or technological resourses. Still neo-colonial would probably be too nice a description of the way they would pursue these ends to the prior poster's point. Just enough food and nice to make the locals useful.

7. Foreign Legion Recruiting? Why not, but you better be good. There are hundreds of thousands of very experienced soldiers who would be willing to do just about anything for French citizenship. Wouldn't you if you missed the Omega boat? The French can lay out pretty harsh terms in terms of reward for service and still get great soldiers looking for reliable food and shelter.

[Rainbow Six]

Some of my thoughts on this subject

1. Helping European neighbours. I don't for one moment imagine the French simply "helping" anyone for the sake of helping; I could forsee them becoming involved in various countries, but I think any such involvement would solely be to further French interests - as Paul said, helping other countries to reach a level where they can be of use to France.

For example, it's been mentioned on the Poland After Omega thread that the French would gain a long term benefit from helping the Poles as it would place a French ally on Germany's eastern border. Some of you may have noted that I've always advocated the French having a covert presence in the United Kingdom as well as it suits the French to keep the UK destabilised. I'd expect Germany to also be subject to French destablisation efforts. Yes, both the UK and Germany are in a pretty sorry state on 01 January 2001, but they will recover eventually - anything that the French can do to delay that recovery gives them more time to cement their position as a World Superpower.

I think in some areas you could see proxy warfare taking place, with factions armed / equipped by the French fighting factions supported by other countries. One example of that could be in Scotland if French backed Scottish separatists became engaged in combat with British Government troops. Likewise in Canada, withe the French supporting Quebecois against Canadian troops.

I think the French might also become involved with Catalonian Separatists as that would put a buffer state on the Franco Spanish border.

2. French agents. I think you'd still find numbers of French agents throughout Europe (and beyond). Fully agree with Slappy that comms will be unreliable, etc, but I think working for the French may be an attractive option for many - they can pay, not just in cash (gold?) but in goods, and ultimately can offer sanctuary in French territory - that may be a powerful recruiting tool for a would be agent in war torn Germany - work for the DGSE for a few years and you and your family will be given safe passage to France (of course, every time the agent tries to take the French up on that offer they say "one more mission...just a few months more". Incidentally, I always though the idea of an Israeli agent in Krakow was a bit far fetched...so I made her French and Head of the DGSE in Poland.

I also think there may be a fair number of French agents in North America, operating out of Quebec - I think it's possible that there would be a DGSE presence in both Colorado Springs and Omaha.

3. I agree with Slappy - the Soviets aren't going to pose much of a threat to the French Army any time soon. And the French will still have their own nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.

4. Again, I agree with Slappy - I don't envisage the Italians and the French going at it in any big way; perhaps the occasional skirmish on the border between French troops and semi marauders encroaching on their territory, but nothing more than that - referring to my point above, if the Italians did get shirty the French still have nukes...

I actually think there's more mileage in the possibility of the French and the Italians forming some sort of alliance...I'm not suggesting that the Italians join the Franco Belgian Union, but I think it's possible there could be some trade between the French and the Italians.

5 / 6. Agree with Slappy again...the Flemish may not be pro FBU, but what are their options? Fight for independence from the most organised country in Europe? I think that would be out of the frying pan and into a very, very hot fire...

There may be some localised disturbances / rioting inside France, particularly I think in 1997 / 1998, but I'd expect the authorities to deal with them quite quickly and efficiently.

As for outside Europe, remember the French presence in Quebec gives them a foothold in North America, and there are also French territories in the Pacific and Going Home states that Senegal is under French control (I think?). So I think the French might be engaged in a small amount of Empire building, although again on the basis of how that can best serve France.

7. Expanding the Foreign Legion; yep, I think any experienced troops who find themselves in French territory might find a home in the Legion.

So, that's my take on the French...trying to establish themselves as the World's only Superpower, helped by the fact that they still have a nuclear arsenal, and offering limited assistance to other countries, but only when doing so best serves their own needs.

Cheers

[Raellus]

It would be irrational and dangerous but I can see some sort of Flemish underground starting up in the wake of union with France. I think that a de-facto French seizure of Belgium would be the straw that broke the camel's back for some Flemish Belgians. The more militant among them might form an underground of sorts or a separatist terrorist organization. I don't see them doing any more than ETA has done in Spain but they would be a nuisance.

Have any of you seen Children of Men? Great film, IMHO. I see the French having to deal with significant internal strife resulting from anti-refugee sentiments. There'd be loads of refugees from all over Europe, Africa, and the Middle East trying desperately to find sanctuary on French soil. This would undoubtedly worry and upset a lot of French citizens. I see some right-wing French nationalists extending anti-refugee sentiments/actions to anti-immigrant sentiment/actions (i.e. "if you're not racially French, get out of France!"). I can see riots much like the ones that occured a couple of years ago when French police shot and killed a Muslim boy in one of France's ethnic ghettos.

How would the French government deal with this? Who knows. But it would be a serious issue that they would have to deal with.

As for French involvement in the rest of Europe, I've posted a few times that I think that the French would actively court/pursue Poland as an eastern foil to help contain Germany and inhibit its revival. I think both the French and the Poles (the Polish, moreso) have an almost atavistic fear of Germany and anything either could do to keep Germany off balance would be done.

I see the French DGSE attempting to acquire the Black Madonna as a means to manipulate religious sentiment in Poland. There's that Catholic brotherhood thing to cultivate and exploit. An FFL direct action unit made up of men of Eastern European descent would be perfect for the job. I have a PC in my PoV campaign that ended up in Poland this way.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

As for outside Europe, remember the French presence in Quebec gives them a foothold in North America, and there are also French territories in the Pacific and Going Home states that Senegal is under French control (I think?). So I think the French might be engaged in a small amount of Empire building, although again on the basis of how that can best serve France.

France has the Saint Pierre and Miquelon islands which give it a foothold in North American, the islands have two harbours with larger one being on Saint Pierre which handle the ferry, a 1000 ft runnway and airport and acess to Canada through a small ferry which carrys people only

[Mohoender]

My turn.

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

What would French do to help or not help their European neighbors after the fall of 2000?

I would not surprise everyone if I say not much but there will have exceptions. In France we love exceptions. What would be a rule without the thousands of exceptions/special cases comming with it? One of these exception could be applied to Catalonia. That region of Spain is in the process of gaining independence and France always had close ties with it. The other ones would be Cornwall, Wales and Scotland as the French would highly desire to weaken UK as much as possible (we already discussed that. Germany, Netherland, Spain and Italy would be ruled out.

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Did they (still) have agent working in all level government in Germany and NATO Allies?

Yes I would say so. As someone else said: because France still can pay. In addition, unlike US we love field agents and don't rely as much on electronics. Talking of that France retain the ability to send sattelites in Space.

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

What is their view of the Soviets threat poses to them?

What threat? First, it is gone. Second, France is more than ready to face it. Third, they are bloody communsits and that is something we perfectly understand. We have plenty of communist heroes ourselves. The most patriotic song after the "Marseillaise" is "The International". The communist came to existence within the second international that was established in Paris in 1889. More important, France still has plenty of nukes and the power to wipe out any potential surviving ennemy. What would not surprise me, however, is to have the French more concern about a potential US threat. After all these guys whatch Disney and play with nuclear bombs. Aren't they anything but immature kids?

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

What is their view of the Pact Force threat poses to them, remember Italy is to their southeast?

Again what threat? Italy being a threat (except for soccer), give me a break. Moreover we like Pasta.

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

What type of internal struggles would have increase since WWIII started, including issue within Belgium with parts of the nation opposing the Union?

All! The Basque region will be in chaos. Britanny will pause a problem but nothing we can't deal with. Mountainous regions being partially independent is effectively possible. I don't believe in Corsica going away but the "Union Corse" is a great idea. However, the Island should be autonomous with the constitution of Pascal Paoli completing the French one. Moreover, the Corsicans could be heavily involved in Italy, challenging the Italian Mafias at least in some regions. In Belgium, the Flemmish should be a serious threat with people engaged in regular sabotage and the French Gendarmerie (with units made up almost entirely of Belgian Wallon) conducting heavy anti-terrorists action much in the way of these conducted by Nazi Germany during WWII. (I wouldn't be surprised to see a few concentration camps around especially if they are presented as refugee camps)

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

How stable is the French-Belgium Union and how much support do they offer to outside of Europe, besides the situation that are handle in the Middle East Resource Guide?

Fairly Stable at least when it comes to Brussel Capital, the Wallon region, Luxembourg and the Saarland (Yes I include it). In this union, you'll also have to include Monaco Andorra and may be the Anglo-British Islands. Switzerland should be/become a partner and this is also true for Ireland. Tunisia could have joined the Union. Some African countries would have become almost true protectorate: Senegal, Djibouti, Cameroon, Gabon and may be Benin (Togo is in question). French garrisons there would have been increased and French troops would be heavily involved in internal security within these countries. Quebec would be supported but probably not too openly (why would you want to be at war with NATO?). Cuba could be helped out (also not too openly) as it would be very nice to kick dying US in its own backyard when it cannot hit back. Limited relations should be established with Australia, New Zealand, Sweden and Thailand. Finally, you can expect the French to be involved in some kind of covert operations in Poland and in Serbia.

Originally Posted by Abbott Shaull

Is the French Foreign Legion being expanded? How are the recruiting?

Yes! It should be back to it's pre-1962 level of 40.000 (actually it is around 7.000). Many disbanded units would be recreated. It would recruit as always with a full respect of its tradition. Anyone can enlist but, as someone says, that should be hard. Women can enlist but, so far, none ever passed the selection tests (no risk of being sued for discrimination). A French can enlist but has to declare that he is not a French citizen.

Legionnaires code of honour (I suspect article 6 to change slightly)
Article 1: Legionnaire, you are a volunteer, serving France with honour and fidelity.
Article 2: Each legionnaire is your brother in arms whatever his nationality, his race or his religion might be. You show to him the same close solidarity that links the members of the same family.
Article 3: You respect your traditions and your superiors. Discipline and friendship are your strengths. Courage and honesty are your virtues.
Article 4: You are proud of being a legionnaire. You are always well mannered and smart. Your behaviour is of the best. You are always modest and your quarters are always clean and tidy.
Article 5: You are an elite soldier who is rigorous with himself. You consider your weapon as your most precious possession. You constantly maintain your physical fitness.
Article 6: Your mission is sacred. It is carried out until the end, in respect of the law, the customs of war International Conventions, if needs be, at the risk of your own life.
Article 7: In combat you act without passion or hatred. You respect vanquished enemies. You never surrender your dead, your wounded, or your weapons.

Article 7 is a reference to the most important of their tradition: Camerone. "Camerone 1863" is found on all flags from the Legion along with "Nation and Fidelity". As far as I know they have always been faithful to this.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Quebec would be supported but probably not too openly (why would you want to be at war with NATO?). .

Surely France chose to go to war with NATO when it invaded two NATO members (West Germany and the Netherlands) at the start of 1998?

I've always presumed that the fact that the NATO powers were somewhat pre occupied with fighting the Warsaw Pact at the time meant that other partners in the alliance, primarily the United Kingdom and the United States, chose to turn the proverbial blind eye to this move by the French (perhaps after some top secret negotiations between the various Governments).

I've often thought the French might use their presence in Quebec to influence similar negotiations between the French and US Governments (Milgov or Civgov). For example, the French might be willing to supply Milgov with oil on the condition that Milgov recognised the Quebec Separatists as the legitimate government of Quebec?

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Surely France chose to go to war with NATO when it invaded two NATO members (West Germany and the Netherlands) at the start of 1998?

I've always presumed that the fact that the NATO powers were somewhat pre occupied with fighting the Warsaw Pact at the time meant that other partners in the alliance, primarily the United Kingdom and the United States, chose to turn the proverbial blind eye to this move by the French (perhaps after some top secret negotiations between the various Governments).

I've often thought the French might use their presence in Quebec to influence similar negotiations between the French and US Governments (Milgov or Civgov). For example, the French might be willing to supply Milgov with oil on the condition that Milgov recognised the Quebec Separatists as the legitimate government of Quebec?

I agree and that's what I mean when saying that France doesn't want to go at war with NATO (the blind eye or eye left at all).

I disagree with your view on Quebec for one simple reason: at that time France can impose it's will to any other power whenever it wants. If it doesn't do it, it can only be explained through popular pressure. France is the only country left with a significant number of nukes and it can oblitare either what is left of Russia or the US. That's a hell of an argument. It also has a surviving intact and expending navy (the Richelieu came to existance) and can cut US troops from supply at will anywhere in the world. The main weakness of France is an insufficient population.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

The main weakness of France is an insufficient population.

You know, I read that and thought that would be a good reason that France would no longer be a great power in Traveller: 2300 -- but not in T2K. By 2300, the rest of the world might have gotten real tired of having France push them around (unfortunately, sort of like other countries are getting real tired of being pushed around by the US these days). All great powers eventually fall or fade away -- usually because they've gotten too big for their britches. In T2K, France is the biggest kid on the block -- by 2300, the rest of the kids on the block might have gotten together and beaten the crap out of France.

[Webstral]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

I agree and that's what I mean when saying that France doesn't want to go at war with NATO (the blind eye or eye left at all).

I disagree with your view on Quebec for one simple reason: at that time France can impose it's will to any other power whenever it wants. If it doesn't do it, it can only be explained through popular pressure. France is the only country left with a significant number of nukes and it can oblitare either what is left of Russia or the US. That's a hell of an argument. It also has a surviving intact and expending navy (the Richelieu came to existance) and can cut US troops from supply at will anywhere in the world. The main weakness of France is an insufficient population.

We're to believe, then, that the Soviet Union doesn't hit the French naval bases at Brest and Marseilles (?) because...

Webstral

[Legbreaker]

Note also that France did not close it's borders until late winter, early spring of 1998, aproximately 6 months after the first nukes were used and about 2-3 months after long range strategic targets were hit.
Up until this time, the Pact could have been excused for thinking France and Belgium were supporting Nato even they they did not have troops on the front lines.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Webstral

We're to believe, then, that the Soviet Union doesn't hit the French naval bases at Brest and Marseilles (?) because...

Webstral

There is precedent for this - according to canon the Soviets didn't nuke any of the major Royal Navy bases in the UK - neither Portsmouth nor Plymouth appear on GDW's target lists. Indeed in the Survivor's Guide to the UK Portsmouth is now the national capital.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Webstral

We're to believe, then, that the Soviet Union doesn't hit the French naval bases at Brest and Marseilles (?) because...

Webstral

- Because Brest is not listed as destroyed in the game.

- Because we have no naval base in Marseille. It is in Toulon.

I have no doubts that the Soviet knew about that but according to several wargames (from US, Sweden...), it seems that if the bombing was to come from NATO, we have a chance.

- More important, because France is neutral and if you nuke either of these, the country gets in the war.

- Because, according to the game, France was subjected to nukes in order to deny use of its oil facilities (Boulogne, Cherbourg and Nantes). Brest has none. Marseille should have been destroyed but it is noted as the most important port to be still in action.

Whatever, if you target France, I agree with you. For my part France enters the war but revert to neutrality just before the nukes and negociate a separate peace with the Pact. Then, the Soviets keep to their word and the nukes hitting France are coming from NATO.

[Mohoender]

You'll need this for what follows.

DA : Division Alpine (Alpine Division)
DAM : Division Aéromobile (Airmobile Division)
DB : Division Blindée (Armored Division)
DI : Division d’Infanterie (Infantry Division)
DIM : Division d’Infanterie Mobilisée (Reserve Infantry Division)
DIMa : Division d’Infanterie de Marine (Naval Infantry Division)
DLB : Division Légère Blindée (Light Armored Division)
DP : Division Parachutiste (Airborne Division)
BSPP : Brigade des Sapeur-Pompiers de Paris (Paris Fire Brigade)
DBLE : Demi-Brigade de la Légion Etrangère (Half-Brigade of the Foreign Legion)
RA : Régiment d’Artillerie (Artillery Regiment)
RAMa : Régiment d’Artillerie de Marine (Naval Artillery Regiment)
RCR : Régiment de Circulation Routière (MP Regiment, pretty much)
RCS : Régiment de Commandement et de Soutien (Command and Support Regiment)
RDP : Régiment de Dragons Parachutistes (Airborne Regiment)
RE : Régiment Etranger (Administrative Regiment of the Foreign Legion)
REC : Régiment Etranger de Cavalerie (Light Armored Rgt of the Foreign Legion)
REG : Régiment Etranger du Genie (Engineer Regiment of the Foreign Legion)
REI : Régiment Etranger d’Infanterie (Infantry Regiment of the Foreign Legion)
REP : Régiment Etranger Parachutiste (Airborne Regiment of the Foreign Legion)
RG : Régiment du Génie (Engineer Regiment)
RH : Régiment de Hussards (Armored Recon Regiment)
RHC : Régiment d’Hélicoptères de Combat (Helicopter Regiment)
RIMAP : Régiment d’Infanterie de Marine du Pacifique (Naval Infantry Regiment)
RMat : Régiment du Matériel (Support Regiment)
RMP : Régiment Mixte du Pacifique (Mix Regiment, largely engineer)
RPIMa : Régiment Parachutiste d’Infanterie de Marine (Naval Airborne Regiment)
RSMA : Régiment du Service Militaire Adapté (Overseas School Regiment)
RT : Régiment du Train (Transport Regiment)
RTrans : Régiment de Transmission (Signal Regiment)
BCS : Bataillon de Commandement et de Soutien (Command and Support Battalion)
BIMa : Bataillon d’Infanterie de Marine (Naval Infantry Battalion)
DLEM : Détachement de Légion Etrangère Mayotte (Mayotte Foreign Legion Group)

[Mohoender]

FORCE D’ACTION RAPIDE (FAR/Rapid Deployment Force)
Direct reporting units
o 17e RCS
o 2e RG
o 4e RMat
o 18e RTrans
o 28e RTrans
o 511e RT
o 602e RCR
Combat Units
o 4e DAM : 3800 Men, 94 Gazelle, 52 Puma (at full strength this was about 6000 Men and 240 helicopters, 1 Infantry regiment and 3 helicopter regiments)
o 6e DLB : 4400 Men, 36 AMX-10RC, VBL, VAB
o 9e DIMa : 5900 Men, 26 AMX-10RC, VBL, VAB
o 11e DP : 4200 Men, ERC-90, VBL, VAB
o 27e DA : 4400 Men, 28 ERC-90, VBL, VAB

1re ARMEE
- 1re Escadrille Légère
- 1er RG
- 13e RDP : VBL
- 6e RA (observation)
- 7e RA (CL-289 drones)
- 61e RA : AuF1, TR-F1
- 401e RA : 24 I-Hawk
- 402e RA : 24 I-Hawk
- 403e RA : 24 I-Hawk
- 40e RTrans
- 44e RTrans
- 54e RTrans
- 57e RTrans
- Brigade de Berlin : 1500 Men, 29 AMX-30B2, VBL, VAB

1er CORPS D’ARMEE
Direct reporting units
o 8e RH : VBL, ERC-90
o 7e RHC
o 32e RG
o 3e RA : 8 Pluton
o 15e RA : 8 Pluton
o 54e RA : AMX Bitubes
o 57e RA : AMX Bitubes, AMX Roland
o 1er RMat
o 5e RMat
o 8e RMat
o 43e RTrans
o 516e RT
o 601e RCR
Combat Units
o 1re DB: 5600 Men, 59 AMX-30B2, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 7e DB: 7700 Men, 96 AMX-30B2, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 12e DLB: 5800 Men, 44 AMX-10RC, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1
o 14e DLB: 7200 Men, 48 AMX-10RC, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1

2e CORPS D’ARMEE
Direct reporting units
o 3e RH : VBL, ERC-90
o 2e RHC
o 10e RG
o 12e RA : LRM
o 32e RA : 8 Pluton
o 51e RA : AMX Bitubes, AMX Roland
o 53e RA : AMX Roland
o 74e RA : 8 Pluton
o 2e RMat
o 6e RMat
o 7e RMat
o 20e RT
o 42e RTrans
o 50e RTrans
o 53e RTrans
o 135e RT
o 604e RCR
Combat Units
o 3e DB: 6100 Men, 28 Leclercs, 25 AMX-30 Brenus, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 5e DB: 7000 Men, 88 AMX-30B2, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 15e DI: 7800 Men, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1

3e CORPS D’ARMEE
Direct reporting units
o 2e RH : 850 Men, VBL, ERC-90
o 6e RHC
o 71e RG
o 152e RI : VBL, AMX-10P
o 3e RAMa : 24 TR-F1
o 4e RA : 8 Pluton
o 58e RA : AMX Bitubes, AMX Roland
o 3e RMat
o 51e RTrans
o 58e RTrans
o 517e RT
o 625e RCR
Combat Units
o 2e DB: 7400 Men, 82 Leclerc, 30 AMX-30 Brenus, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 10e DB: 6500 Men, 78 AMX-30 Brenus, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 8e DI: 5600 Men, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1

COMMANDEMENT SUPERIEUR ANTILLES-GUYANE
Direct reporting units
o 16e BSC
o 1er RSMA (Martinique): 500 Men
o 2e RSMA (Guadeloupe): 550 Men
o 3e RSMA (Guyane): 700 Men
Combat Units
o 3e REI (Guyane) : 700 Men, 5 VAB T20, 34 VAB
o 9e RIMa (Guyane) : 750 Men
o 33e RIMa (Martinique): 350 Men
o 41e BIMa (Guadeloupe): 350 Men

COMMANDEMENT SUPERIEUR PACIFIQUE*
Direct reporting units
o 42e BSC
o 5e RSMA: 600 Men
Combat Units
o RIMAP-NC : 900 Men, 12 AML-90, 6 MO120
o RIMAP-P : 800Men
* This command never existed and IRL is divided among the Polynesian Command and the New Caledonian Command.. Moroever, the 5e RSMA is a fictiv unit while IRL, there are two GSMA roughly corresponding to a regiment in Manpower.

COMMANDEMENT SUPERIEUR OCEAN INDIEN
Direct reporting units
o 53e BSC
o 4e RSMA: 500 Men
Combat Units
o DLEM : 250 Men
o 2e RPIMa: 500 Men

TROUPES EN AFRIQUE
Direct reporting units
o 10e BSC (Djibouti)
Combat Units
o 13e DBLE (Djibouti) : 1100 Men, 8 VBL, 9 ERC90, 6 VAB T20, 36 VAB, 5 MO120
The Demi-Brigade de la Légion Etrangère had been reduced to 800 men but it is expended shortly before the conflict to reach its previous manpower of 1700 Men. After being sent to the Middle East, it is withdrawn to Djibouti.
o 5e RIAOM (Djibouti) : 800 Men, 14 ERC-90, 12 VAB, 4 TR-F1, 4 MO120
o 6e BIMa (Gabon) : 600 Men, 3 AML-90
o 23e BIMa (Senegal) : 600 Men, 12 AML-90
o 43e BIMa (Côte d’Ivoire) : 450 Men, 12 AML-90, 14 VAB

COMMANDEMENT DE LA LEGION ETRANGERE
Direct reporting units
o 1er RE
o 4e RE

1er COMANDEMENT LOGISTIQUE (Logistic Command)
Direct reporting units
o 121e RT
o 503e RT
o 505e RT
o 515e RT
o 525e RT

1re REGION MILITAIRE (Paris)
-Direct reporting units
o 101e RT (Reserve)
o BSPP : 5600 Men
Combat Units
o 24e RI : VBL, PVP
o 102e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

2e REGION MILITAIRE (Lille)
Direct reporting units
o 15e RG Air (Toul)
o 102e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 43e RI
o 108e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 112e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

3e REGION MILITAIRE (Rennes)
Direct reporting units
o 103e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 41e RI
o 109e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 131e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 141e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

4e REGION MILITAIRE (Bordeaux)
Direct reporting units
o 45e RG Air (Toulouse)
o 104e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 111e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 115e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

5e REGION MILITAIRE (Lyon)
Direct reporting units
o 105e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 114e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 127e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 152e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

6e REGION MILITAIRE (Metz)
Direct reporting units
o 106e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o Division du Rhin : 8500 Men, 12 AML-90, TR-F1, MO120 (part Reserve)
o 104e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 110e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

7e REGION MILITAIRE (Marseille)
Direct reporting units
o 25e RG Air (Istres)
o 107e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 72e BIMa
o 151e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

This OOB is as complete as possible and almost entirely accurate (Nevertheless, I left aside many companies). Don't pay attention to the Manpowers, they are solely mines. However, the equipments available are quite accurate I think. It is impossible to have the entire French armored force equipped with Leclerc. AMX-30B2 will still be very common and the AMX-30 Brenus will see more widespread diffusion. About tank numbers they are much higher than in the NATO book because the French Army didn't participate that much into the war, because, tank production might still be going on and because a French DB had between 140 and 210 tanks.

Most of the Foreign Legion was integrated into larger units. Then, they might have been dispatched to the Middle-East as in NATO sourcebbok. However, it is highly doubtful to have the FAR sent entirely to the Middle East (France didn't have the ships to carry them anyway). It was never intended for that and would have been sent to Germany instead (the Theater for which it was designed). Moreover, you don't send half of your helicopter force out. Instead, a large unit like the division "Daguet" sent during the Gulf War could certainly have been formed.

Last, about the DIM, they are equipped mostly with older equipments phased out from the regular units but some might have also a handful of more modern equipments. In addition, to what I indicated, they might use Jeeps (Hotchkiss made), GMC trucks, RCL guns, M101 howitzers...

Outside of the DIM, I doubt that France draw extensively on its reserve except for reinforcements. If any of you ever found the number of 22 reserve division for France, this is a false number. By 1989, they were only the 14 I noted. The mistake comes from a military administrative division that brought confusion to many translators.

France can draw on its Gendarmerie for internal security and that is 100.000 Men with an additional 40.000/50.000 Reserve.

At last, there are the Belgian units (Regulars and Gendarmerie). I'll try to figure them out.

[Mohoender]

Here is what I could find for the Belgian component. I ruled out most of the flemmish units and the two divisions are running at half their normal strength.

BELGIAN CORPS
Direct reporting units
o 1st Engineer Battalion: 300 Men, 4 M48 AVLB
o 17th Engineer Battalion: 250 Men
o 14th Anti-aircraft Battalion: 150 Men, 16 Gepard
o 43rd Anti-aircraft Battalion: 200 Men, 10 I-Hawk
o 13th Artillery Group : 750 Men, 5 M110, 14 M109
Combat Units
o 1e Compagnie d’Equipes Spéciales de Reconnaissance (ESR) : 100 Men
o Chasseurs Ardennais : 350 Men
o Para-commando Regiment : 1050 Men, 19 Scorpion, 8 Howitzers
o 1er Regiment des Guides : 250 Men, 15 Leopard 1
o 2e Regiment de Chasseur Ã* Cheval : 200 Men, 11 Leopard 1
o 1er Regiment de Chasseur Ã* Cheval : 400 Men, Scorpion, Spartan
o 4e Regiment de Chasseur Ã* Cheval : 500 Men, Scimitar, Spartan
o 1st Belgian Division (Mech) : 4000 Men, M113, AIFV, M109
o 16th Belgian Division (Mech) : 4600 Men, M113, AIFV, M109
BELGIAN TERRITORIAL UNITS
Direct reporting units
o 11th Engineer Battalion: 250 Men
o 27th Engineer Battalion: 350 Men
Combat Units
o Régiment de Lanciers – Limbourg : 400 Men
o Régiment des Carabiniers Cyclistes : 500 Men
o Régiment Territorial – Liege : 800 Men
o Régiment Territorial – Namur : 650 Men
o Régiment Territorial – Brabant : 500 Men
o Régiment Territorial – Hainaut : 550 Men
o Régiment Territorial – Luxembourg : 650 Men

[Mohoender]

I realized today that I already posted a French Orbat. Therefore, consider this one as an updated one. As a last element here is the Orbat for the Gendarmerie Nationale before the war. Overseas Gendarmerie is subject to caution with the only accurate manpower being these of Polynesia and ambassies.

GSIGN (Groupement de sécurité et d'intervention de Gendarmerie nationale/Special Forces)
GSPR (Presidential Security) 80 Men
GIGN (Counter Terrorist Unity) : 180 Men
EPIGN (Airborne Squadron of the Gendarmerie National) : 135 Men

Garde Républicaine (Republican Guard)
Régiment de Cavalerie : 570 Cavalry
1e Régiment d’Infanterie : 1000 Men
2e Régiment d’Infanterie : 1300 Men

GSAN (Military nuclear sites protection) : Manpower unknown

Gendarmerie de l’Armement (Arsenals protection) : 350 Men

Gendarmerie de l’Air (On Military Base)
North Group (HQ on BA107 Villacoublay) : 550 Men
South Group (HQ on BA106 Nordeaux-Merignac) : 400 Men

Gendarmerie des Transports Aérien (On Civilian Airports)
North Group : 440 Men
South Group : 400 Men
Overseas : 160 Men

Gendarmerie Maritime (Coastal Protection and patrol)
Chanel & North Sea : 240 Men, 2 Medium Patrol Crafts, 4 Light Patrol Crafts
Mediterranean : 230 Men, 1 Medium Patrol Craft, 8 Light Patrol Crafts
Atlantic : 400 Men, 9 Light Patrol Crafts
Paris : 120 Men
Guadeloupe : 15 Men, 1 Medium Patrol Craft
Guyana : 15 Men, 2 Light Patrol Crafts
Martinique : 15 Men, 1 Light Patrol Craft
Mayotte : 15 Men, 1 Light Patrol Craft
New Caledonia : 30 Men, 1 Light Patrol Craft
Polynesia : 15 Men, 1 Medium Patrol Craft
St. Pierre & Miquelon : 15 Men

GBGM (Groupement Blindé de Gendarmerie Mobile/1e Région Militaire)
Group 1/1 : 950 Men, 14 AML-90, 28 VBC-90, 32 AMX-VCI, 44 VBRG
Group 2/1 : 600 Men
Group 3/1 : 650 Men

Légion de Gendarmerie Mobile (Mobile Gendarmery Legions)*
2e LGM (4e Région Militaire) : 1800 Men, AML-90, VBRG
3e LGM (3e Région Militaire) : 1800 Men, AML-90, VBRG
4e LGM (3e Région Militaire) : 1700 Men, AML-90, VBRG
5e LGM (5e Région Militaire) : 1550 Men, AML-90, VBRG
6e LGM (7e Région Militaire) : 1350 Men, AML-90, VBRG
7e LGM (6e Région Militaire) : 1900 Men, AML-90, VBRG
8e LGM (6e Région Militaire) : 1200 Men, AML-90, VBRG
9e LGM (2e Région Militaire) : 1200 Men, AML-90, VBRG
* I have not been able to find out how many AML and VBRG were in each LGM. In any case the number of vehicles was not above 15. I can’t say were they will be mobilized but I found 46 Reserve Squadron of the Gendarmerie National that will with no doubt be mobilized for a total of 6900 Men.

Gendarmerie Départementale (Local Gendarmery, equipped with civilian vehicles. It is in organized among 22 Legions)
1re Légion (Paris and surroundings)
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Alsace
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Aquitaine
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Auvergne
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Basse-Normandie
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Bourgogne
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Bretagne
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Centre
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Champagne-Ardenne
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Corse
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Franche-Comté
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Haute Normandie
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Languedoc-Roussillon
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Limousin
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Lorraine
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Midi-Pyrénées
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Nord-Pas-de-Calais
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Provence-Alpes-Côte d’Azur
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Pays de la Loire
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Picardie
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Poitou-Charentes
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Rhône-Alpes
Légion de gendarmerie départementale - Wallonie-Luxembourg (Doesn't exist)
* I have not been able to find the manpower of the various legions because they are composed of 3341 Brigades with each one of them counting between 6-49 personnels. However, including the reserve, the total Manpower should be around 100000 with an average of 4500 personnels in each Legion. Obviously, the Legion Wallonie-Luxembourg doesn’t exist but it should have been created from the former Belgian Royal Gendarmerie. Finally, if you ask yourself what Legion is covering the Flemish land, it should be the Legion Nord-Pas-de-Calais. Saarland would come under the jurisdiction of the Legion Lorraine.

Gendarmerie d’Outre-mer (Overseas Gendarmery)
Guadeloupe Group : 600 Men, 1 AS-355, VBRG
Martinique Group : 600 Men, 1 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
La Réunion Group : 600 Men, 1 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
New Caledonia Group : 850 Men, 2 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
Guyane Group : 800, 3 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
Polynesia Group: 250 Men, VBRG
Ambassy Guards: 280 Men

[Mohoender]

One last thing about France and its post-nukes capabilities concern the police force (140.000 Men and Women).

I would consider them to be unreliable and corrupt with the exception of the CRS (Compagnies Républicaines de Securité). These (15.000 Men/no Women) are tasked with maintaining civil order and should remain loyal to the government.

[pmulcahy11b]

Speaking of nuclear warheads, do you think France used all of hers up in the nuclear exchange? If not, who has control of them now?

[Legbreaker]

Would France have fired any nukes? Technically they're not at war with anyone....