Need your help/advice on optics , supressors and so on!

[B.T.]

Hi everybody!

I need your help in certain aspects of accessories for firearms. I'm GMing a campaign using the v2.2 rules. I stick to the given timeline. Therefore I assume, that a lot of special parts, like the SOPMOD kits for the M16/M4 carbine and similar equipment, are not in widespread use. But certain pieces are certainly available. Some pieces can even be homemade, given the talents (Gunsmith skills!).

1) How do you handle the effects of supressors? I use the noise table from MERC 2000, but I'm not sure, how a supressor would vary the ranges. All kinds of silencers and supressors basically slow the bullet's speed. This must have some effect on the ranges!
By the way: "Infantry weapons of the world" does not reduce the range of the bullet. For example: the data for the MP-5A2 and the MP5-SD3 are identical but as far as I can see, the range for the supressed MP should be reduced.
Has any one of you some kind of house rule?

2) How do you handle laser pointers in the game? In the early 90ies some pistols could be equipped with those. And laser pointers were very popular in schools and universities. These could easily be fitted to a rifle. Specialized rifle or pistol equipment will certainly be better suited for combat, but more "civil" items could be used (Maybe with reduced sighting ranges?).
How far does the beam go?
Isn't it easier to aim? Would a shot with a laser beamer or pointer become easier, i.e. reducing the difficulty level?

3) Last, not least, how alter flashlights, used as an aiming device, the chances of aiming? Is it easier to aim with them (again: decrease of the difficulty level?)? What about the "effective range" of the beam?

I'm well aware, that certain circumstances - like fog, rain, snow, or dust - have their effects on flashlights and laser pointers. Any ideas, how to handle this?

I'm afraid, the "Use your wits/experience!"-approach does not work here, because I have non.

I'd be verry thankful for any help on these and related issues.

Thanks for your help!

[pmulcahy11b]

I know this isn't a lot of help, but I have struggled with this for a while now. The Special Operations handbook allows for the user of a laser pointer to take up to three aimed shots per phase if the targets are within 40 meters. I allow the user of a reflex-type sight to make aimed shots on the move during any movement that allows at least a Difficult shot (you have to see my House Rules for Weapons to understand what that means). I allow the same for laser pointers during movement if the shot is at short range.

I have on my site under Equipment - Vision Devices some rules for scopes other than the standard 3-5x provided in the T2K rules.

Somewhere in one of the rulebooks, there are rules for suppressed weapons and noise that mentions Class I, Class II, and Class III noise, but I can't seem to find it right now.

I've heard in some places that the design of the MP-5SD allows for full-power rounds and ranges comparable to a standard MP-5, but most sources disagree. The MP-5SD on my site does not have anywhere near the range of the standard MP-5. In general, it seems that if you use the actual barrel length (which is usually shorter on a silenced weapon) and divide the range you get in figures from Fire, Fusion and Steel formulas by 1.2, it comes out about right for range.

If you don't have Fire, Fusion and Steel, it's worth the buy. I have some spreadsheets that, while not perfect, will get you in the ballpark for figures.

[Legbreaker]

As we all know, the printed range of a weapon is it's "close" range. x2 for medium, x4 for long and x8 for extreme.
Therefore a weapon of say 5.56mmN with a range of 50 would be as follows.

PHP Code:

Close   Medium   Long   Extreme
  50     100      200     400 


We also know that the bullet doesn't just drop out of the air the moment it hits 401 metres, but can travel several miles further on.
Therefore I would say the energy loss from a supressor isn't really going to have enough of an impact on game mechanics to worry about effecting accuracy. Hitting power on the other hand may be reduced by say -1 to each die of damage.

Dark Conspiracy (and Special Ops I think) state laser sights allow the first three rounds in a phase/turn to be aimed rather than the usual one. From memory it has no effect on quick shots and is only effective to 40 metres.

Flashlights have a much wider beam than a laser. My thoughts are the only real benefit is they let the user keep both hands on their weapon and still see.

[B.T.]

Thanks for quick answers and your thoughts on the item.

@Paul: I have a copy of "Fire,Fusion,Steel" but, to be honest: I had forgotten about that fact. I'll check it in the next days. But a very helpful hint!

Btw: Your site is really amazing and I will propably check it for your special rules. Keep up the good work!

Well, any further thought on the subject will be appreciated.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Here's some optional rulings and gear from a friend who was running a Dark Conspiracy game, keep in mind that some of the devices are from the 1990s-2000s so they might be too advanced for the Twilight War and you'd have to adjust the prices and availability codes from Dark Conspiracy to T2k

Laser Aiming Devices
Commonly called a LAD (pronounced lad) in military usage. Laser beams are normally invisible with the ‘dot’ being visible purely because it is projected onto a background (presumably the target). In smoke, fog, steam and very dusty conditions, the beam reflects from the particles in the air and is easily seen and can be followed back to the shooter’s position. Infrared and ultraviolet lasers are in the invisible spectrum for human eyes preventing this problem but are of limited use as IR viewers, thermal imagers or night vision devices are required to see the dot.

Smoke, fog, steam and dust along with rain and snow, can all diffuse the beam so that it is considerably duller than required. They can even block the laser beam so that it never reaches the target.
Range to the target can also diminish the brightness of the dot and thus make it harder to see.

Use of any Laser Aiming Device allows the user to conduct any shot as though it were an Aimed Shot. However due to the requirement to actually see the laser dot, the user must succeed at an Observation check before this benefit can be used. The Observation check will be subject to all the modifiers that apply to the laser beam itself plus any applicable to the vision of the user.
Despite their limitations, LADs can still be of benefit particularly when trying to hit a specific body location and so on.

Infrared Aiming Light: This provides a dot of laser light similar to that of any Laser Aiming Device. It is visible, however, only to those using night vision devices. Has a maximum range of 2000 metres in optimal night conditions and 700m in poor night conditions. These devices were likely first used by West Germany’s GSG9 on their H&K series rifles & SMGs in the late 1980s although heavy use was made of them in the early 1990s during Operation Desert Storm by Coalition forces.
Weight: 0.1kg
Price: $850 (R/C)

Laser Aiming Device, Pistol: This fingertip sized laser projects a visible dot (usually red) that can be used to quickly bring the weapon into alignment with the target. Bright daylight diminishes the intensity of red dot devices, reducing maximum range to around 50m. Otherwise, maximum range is 150m. More expensive orange dot lasers perform better in daylight, having a range of 75m in bright light while maximum range is 200m.
Wt: negligible (both types)
Price: red dot $280 (S/C), orange dot $350 (R/S)

Laser Aiming Device, Rifle, Common: This mini-flashlight sized laser projects a visible dot (usually red) that can be used to quickly bring the weapon into alignment with the target. Bright daylight diminishes the intensity of the dot, reducing the maximum range to 150m, otherwise maximum effective range is 450m. These devices have been used to good psychological affect by some police forces as many criminals find it disconcerting to have the red dot on their chest, indicating exactly where the police marksman will be hitting.
Wt: 0.3kg
Price: $410 (C/C)

Laser Aiming Device, Rifle, Military/Police: Essentially a more powerful version of the unit in the description above. Bright daylight diminishes the intensity of the dot, reducing the maximum range to 300m, otherwise maximum effective range is 900m. Note that at ranges beyond 500m, some sort of telescopic sight must be used to actually see the dot.
Weight: 0.3kg
Price: $620 (S/C)

Laser/Infrared Aiming Light Unit: This combines the features of the red dot Laser and the Infrared Aiming Devices so that the user can select between visible and invisible dots as required for day or night use. See those entries for beam range. It can also be used underwater to a range of 20 Metres. It may also be used as a source of illumination for those wearing NVGs much like a flashlight as the infrared light beam can be focused to provide either the tight beam for the aiming dot or a broad beam.
Weight: 0.2kg
Price: $750 (-/R)

Red Dot Sights

Red Dot Sight, Pistol: This Reflex Sight works like a 1x sight but uses a red dot projected into the focal plane of the eyepiece rather than a normal reticle. Able to be used with both eyes open and in day or night (adjustable brightness), the user simply places the dot over the target. It lowers the Difficulty Level by one step when aiming, out to a range of 100m. Typically fitted to pistols, shotguns and SMGs, however these sights are only useful when conducting an Aimed Shot.
Wt: 0.1kg
Price: $275 (C/C)

Red Dot Sight, Rifle: Essentially the same device as mentioned above however using an adjustable dot (a smaller dot is needed for longer ranges). It lowers the Difficulty Level by one step when aiming, out to a range of 500 metres. Typically fitted to carbines and medium range rifles e.g. 5.56mm types.
Wt: 0.1kg
Price: $350 (C/C)

[Legbreaker]

I challenge anyone with normal vision to see a tiny red dot at more than a few dozen metres....
Can't see how some of those ranges can possibly work.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

I challenge anyone with normal vision to see a tiny red dot at more than a few dozen metres....
Can't see how some of those ranges can possibly work.

There's also the factor of darkness vs. daylight. And looking at your dot through a scope. Hmmm...I need to give it more thought.