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Small unit tactics and cohesion & combat rules knowledge thread
My fellow gamers !
Everyone has their own style and enjoy a as much freedom as can be reasonably given in our gaming.And everyones style is accepted and fun as far as I feel .But some styles will inevitably lead to the odds stacking up against the characters ,and some may tilt them in their favour .The whole thing is a game of odds in a way ,and your skills and the situation you are in are the "cards" you get to play . Great is the glory and joy of the victorious as their PCs survey the battlefield that is littered with the bullet riddled corpses of vanquished foes and all their goodies for the taking amongst the smouldering remnants of battle. On the other hand -in many cases -dreary is the process of building a character up from the beginning with low skills ,little gear and more dominant partymembers constantly giving you latrine duty .Not to mention the shock of loosing a veteran PC of many years and starting afresh. The new damage rules -really the old damage rules and a little sprinkle of malevolently weighted result tables plus a few optional/house rules - ARE DEADLY example : Already in the opening scenes of the first firefight in our last session you guys got a PC down with a critical hit out in the open .A little less luck and that PC would be a goner . So - I made this thread for you guys to discuss "how to do it " and quite possibly even cook up a sort of check list or doctrine that you CAN apply . As was said at the table - "you guys fight like Apache indians -all on the same side but individually ".Tactical manuals ,movies etc will show you - there is rarely a man who goes out and attacks an enemy position alone -its usually several men where some provide cover while others move etc . Attacking a numerically superior enemy over a 200 meter wide front with 6 guys is pretty dangerous in a built up area.I hope this thread can inspire some gaming moves . A few examples of what could be useful : " mutual support" "Optional fire rules " "creeping barrage" "Covering fire" "fire superiority" "movement coordination" etc If of use you can discuss etc here.Also rules questions etc can be put the GM This thread is ment to help if needed and not as a critique of anyone particular style . Last edited by headquarters; 08-10-2009 at 08:40 AM. |
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1st discussion - built up areas -intro
The party has to assault a series of ruins and buildings defended by veteran troops of at least platoon size.They have to take all buildings and clear them to open the bridge to the allied troops that will be there in a few hours .The disposition of the enemy troops is partially known -they have at least one or two squads of 10 in each of the buildings with numbers on them .
The party ( A) is in the ruined ,northernmost part of building with no numbers in the bottom right corner of the map.The ususal set up -party is bristling with guns and ammo ,but only small arms and few RPGs.Its daytime . The scale is 1 CM equals 5 meters -making it app 20 meters across the larger roads between the buildings ( it is close range combat mostly ). The party start their 1st phase in cover and hidden .There is one firing position (RED X) spotted directly across the street from them . What to do ? |
#3
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the first phases
area of party and enemy position .
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#4
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input
so how would you do it in general ?
How would you place the PCs ( imagining that everyone actually cooperated What would be the tactic and methods employed ? |
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well,well..
I did try to incite some interest in tactical gaming and the creation of a sort of in-game SOP to be followed in the course of the fighting.
It would seem that this is superfluous ,and that the ease of urban combat against trained enemies incur no need for drill and training cohesion. The mission you are currently on is of no interest to the PCs personally -I see that one - but as a GM I fail to see that whatever happens to EUREKA with all your stash should be of low interest.. I mean - what would life be like under NDP for say -known Painists or Feudals from San Simeon ?A utilitarian ,authoritarian asketic and strict party with a neolithic brutality and outlook on anyone not falling into their grey clad ,faceless uniformed line.. The damage rules are deadly as you well know.. the enemy is highly trained and hardened NDP cadres.. could it be that the ususal confused 3 minutes of discussion on tactics before we kick of will not be sufficient to pull it of ? Could it be that the reformed and socalled "neo-nasty" GM will demand an hitherto unheard of level of cohesion in regards to observation and fire sectors,mutual support and tactics ? Who will make it ? Who will not ? Anyways - I cant wait to get cracking on the gaming, lads! I predicta 100 % chance of hail - a hail of bullets ! muahahahahahHAHAHAHA! oh yeah..looking over these things a doing a few walk throughs -talk throughs with coins etc on a table is probably a VERY good idea... muhaa.. |
#6
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eh.. hehe
I know it's not a good sign, but I only saw this thread now..
__________________
If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly. I don't carry a gun in case I get in a gun fight. I carry a gun because I don't want to miss the opportunity to get in a gun fight. |
#7
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NEW DAMAGE RULES v.2.1
basically just a few cosmetic upgrades to the doc - but a little more for the players to worry about on the treatment and diagnosis part ..let this be a warning to you muahahah!!
NEW DAMAGE RULES -houserules v.2.1 by GM Headquarters- PURPOSE: to provide more realistic but fast played damage resolution rules. 1 .Basic rules : damage causes loss of hitpoints and affects initiative ,movement ,consciousness etc IMMIDEATE EFFECTS : INITIATIVE : slight -1 int. serious-2 more int critical -2 more int and strength halved LOOSING CONSCIOUSNESS/BLACK OUT : Immediately on going into the negative the player rolls a dice for loss of consciousness and also at the start of each phase when taking action. If seriously wounded CON score is the % chance on the D10 of staying awake –i.e CON 8 is an 80% chance. Blackout lasts until next phase-roll is repeated to gain consciousness. A roll of 10 always means losing consciousness. If critically wounded the player rolls a D100 using CON to decide chance .CON 8 gives an 8 % chance. A character can take a negative amount of-200% HP before death .A HP score of CHEST 25means that at minus 51 character is dead. Critical wounds to head does not mean instant death. BLEEDING TO DEATH : Upon reaching serious level wounded character looses blood at a rate that will kill within 10 minutes if not treated . Upon reaching critical level wounded character looses blood at a rate that will kill within 5 minutes if not treated . TREATMENT/FIRST AID :to stop bleeding is dependant on circumstance and wound severity and type .GM can modify accordingly at discretion. SLIGHT :EASY:MEDICAL SERIOUS : AVERAGE: MEDICAL CRITICAL : DIFFICULT MEDICAL Pers. med . kit +1 , doctors medkit +2 . Treatment MUST include applying bandages ,tourniquets, improvised pressure clamp etc . Cannot be done with nothing. Performing first aid on your self is one level more difficult and means staying conscious for minimum 30 sec.Arms/Legs often easier to do yourself – GM decides. RECOVERY: SLIGHT WOUNDS :10 days.EASY:MEDICAL ½ time. No MEDICAL treatment adds ½ time. PERS. MED KIT +1, DOCTORS MED KIT +3 SERIOUS WOUNDS : 22 days.AVG:MEDICAL ½ time. No MEDICAL treatment adds ½ time. PERS. MED KIT +1, DOCTORS MED KIT +3 CRITICAL WOUNDS: 40 days.DIFFICULT:MEDICAL ½ time. No MEDICAL treatment adds ½ time. PERS. MED KIT +1, DOCTORS MED KIT +3 INSUFFICIENT REST,FOOD,WATER,SHELTER: + ½ time. Any work,movement or combat adds time as pr GM discretion. Effects are cumulative. 2.CRITICAL HITS: Critical hits means wound affects internal organs ,arteries ,bones or other that make injury grave.Usually this means uncontrollable hemorrhaging leading to desanguination or indeed exsanguinations .Critical hits refer to both internal bleeding and other forms of bleeding at dangerous levels. Critical hits also refer to shock in the medical sense of the word .Any injury can cause shock –although in game terms a critical hit is needed to bring about shock. (Hypovolemic and cardiogenic will likely be the main types of shock in-game ,but septic shock or obstructive shock are also likely). The term “Bleed Time” in the critical hit tables refers to exsanguinations has occurred or to the refractory or irreversible state of shock has occurred .In-game we shall not be discussing what came first –exsanguinations or refractory shock. Risk of critical hits occur each time a character is wounded. The GM rolls a D10 , the number of penetrating damage dice equals the chance of it being a critical hit. Example: a hit from a rifle with damage 3 on an unarmored target gives a 30%chance of critical hit on the GMs D10 result roll. (If 2 dice were subtracted due to body armour ,the chance is 10%.) Each critical hit means consulting location specific CRITICAL TABLES for result. The table lists different results for critical and serious wound levels. 3.TREATING CRITICAL HITS /FIRST AID: Treatment Follows wound severity in difficulty. One attempt takes 6 phases .It stops bleeding ,covers wound surface and improves chance of avoiding infection or complication .SLIGHT WOUNDS are EASY ,SERIOUS WOUNDS are AVERAGE and CRITICAL WOUNDS are DIFFICULT. TREATING SHOCK : In hypovolemic shock, usually hemorrhagic shock caused by traumatic injury, it is necessary to immediately control the bleeding and restore the casualty's blood volume by giving infusions of isotonic crystalloid solutions.(IV-drip). In case of respiratory insufficiency (i.e. diminished levels of consciousness, hyperventilation due to acid-base disturbances or pneumonia) intubation and mechanical ventilation may be necessary. TREATING BLEEDING : a variety of techniques ranging from – APPLYING PRESSURE TO WOUND/PRESSURE BANDAGE, GLUEING WOUND TOGETHER,POWDERED COAGULANTS/OTHER,TOURNIQUES,RAISING WOUND HIGHER THAN HEART etc Please note that preventing complications and infections are covered in a separate section (table 6.) These are medical procedures that involve hours of surgery or weeks of care . WOUND SEVERITY INCREASE: Actions such as combat may ad damage point to locations already wounded. GM will pr discretion add damage as combat unfolds. Successful treatments can fall apart / become worse: if strained. New Medical check using treating characters skill is made with appropriate difficulty level .GM decides. Example: running with a bandage can make it come of. Medics skill was 5 .GM decides its an AVERAGE strain for the bandage. Wounded char roll using medics skill. All critical hits must be treated like this unless otherwise stated in tables. 4. LOCATION SPECIFIC CRITICAL TABLES: D10 RESULT CRITICAL HITS TABLE HEAD 1 SERIOUS :Bleed time :10 min CRITICAL : Bleed time 5 min 2 SERIOUS :Bleed time 10 min .Shock. Medical check one level more difficult CRITICAL: Bleed time : 5 min .Shock .Medical check one level more difficult 3 SERIOUS: Bleed time .Shock .10 min CRITICAL :Bleed time Shock. 5 min 4 SERIOUS : Bleed time 5 min .Shock .Loss of hearing: OBS-1 CRITICAL : Bleed time 2 ½ min. Shock. Loss of hearing OBS -2 5 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min . Shock Disfigurement :CHARISMA -1** CRITICAL : bleed time 2 ½ min . Shock Disfigurement : CHARISMA -2** 6 SERIOUS :bleed time 5 min .Hemorrhaging. Horrible disfigurement :CHARISMA -1D6** CRITICAL :bleed time 2 ½ min .Hemorrhaging Horrible disfigurement :CHARISMA -1D6** 7 SERIOUS : bleed time 10 min. Internal hemorrhaging Loss of eyesight : AG-1 ,OBS-2 CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. Internal hemorrhaging . Loss of eyesight : AG-2 ,OBS-3 8 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Internal hemorrhaging. Brain damage :INTEL : -1 CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. Internal hemorrhaging. Brain damage :INTEL : -2 9 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min . Internal hemorrhaging Brain damage: INTEL: - 2, 1D6 skills -1D6 points* CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. Internal hemorrhaging Brain dmg. :INTEL: -3 , 1D6 skills -1D6 points 10 SERIOUS :bleed time 1 min. Extreme Hemorrhaging. Difficult medical to treat CRITICAL: Immediate death * ** What skills are determined by numbering all skills with points. Rolling a dice with the closest number till selection is done. Certain types of damage lends themselves to disfigurement result. Fire, acid etc GM decides. D10 RESULT CRITICAL HITS TABLE CHEST 1 SERIOUS :bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min 2 SERIOUS : bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL :bleed time 5 min 3 SERIOUS : Shock .bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL :Shock. bleed time 5 min. 4 SERIOUS: Shock.bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: Hemorrhaging. bleed time 5 min. 5 SERIOUS: Hemorrhaging bleed time 5 min. CRITICAL: Internal hemorrhaging. Bleed time 2 ½ min. 6 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min.Lung damage: Lungs fill w/blood. Hemorrhaging. Must make CON -1 each turn (6th phase) until treated. Average medical. Failed checks accumulate -1 penalty. When at 0, character has drowned. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. SAME AS OVER. CONCHECK PEN - 2 7 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min .Spinal damage:10% chance of paralysis pr phase moved w/o stretcher or pr obstacle negated Absolute rest min.4 months CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. SAME AS OVER. RISK 20% 8 SERIOUS: bleed time:10 min .Cardiogenic shock: AVG: medical or char dies in CON/2 minutes, Heart failure. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. SAME AS OVER but DIFFICULT :MEDICAL 9 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Heart failure: Difficult medical or char dies in CON/2 minutes Cardiogenic shock CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. SAME AS OVER but TIME IS CON/4 minutes 10 SERIOUS: Massive Internal hemorrhaging.2 min bleed time. Difficult medical to stop. CRITICAL:SAME AS OVER . Bleed time 1 min. D10 RESULT CRITICAL HITS TABLE ABDOMEN 1 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min 2 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min 3 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min 4 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min .Hemorrhaging. 5 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min. Hemorrhaging. CRITICAL: bleed time 2 ½ min. Hemorrhaging. 6 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min.Gutshot. Internal hemorrhage. ADD +3 to the INFECTION ROLL CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min .GUTSHOT. Internal hemorrhaging . ADD+4 to INFECTION ROLL 7 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min.Gutshot. Internal hemorrhaging Add +3 to INFECTION ROLL CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min .GUTSHOT. Internal hemorrhaging ADD+4 to INFECTION ROLL 8 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min.Gutshot. Add +4 to INFECTION ROLL CRITICAL: bleed time 2 ½ min .GUTSHOT. ADD +5 to INFECTION ROLL 9 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min. Artery rupture.2 DIFFICULT:MEDICAL checks to treat . CRITICAL: bleed time 2 min . SAME AS OVER . 3 DIFFICULT: MEDICAL 10 SERIOUS: Massive internal bleeding. Time 2 min.. AVG:MEDICAL to stop. CRITICAL: SAME AS OVER. But DIFFICULT:MEDICAL D10 RESULT CRITICAL HITS TABLE ARMS 1 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min 2 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min 3 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min 4 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Shock CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min .Shock 5 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min. Shock CRITICAL: bleed time 2 ½ min. Hemorrhaging 6 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Nerve damage loss of skill -2 points random skill. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min.SAME AS OVER but -3 7 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Nerve damage loss of skill -3 points random skill. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min.SAME AS OVER but -4 8 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Nerve damage loss of STR -1 . CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. SAME AS OVER . 9 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min .Loss of fingers.Random skill -4.Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 2 ½ min.SAME AS OVER but -5 Hemorrhaging 10 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min. Muscle damage .STR-1.Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 2 1/2 min. Loss of limb. STR- ¼ round down. D10 RESULT CRITICAL HITS TABLE LEGS 1 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. Hemorrhaging 2 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min Hemorrhaging 3 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. Shock 4 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Shock CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min.Shock 5 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min.Shock CRITICAL: bleed time 2 ½ min,Shock 6 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Nerve damage. Movement impaired -1 m /phase CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min .SAME AS OVER but -2 m / phase. Hemorrhaging 7 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Nerve damage. Movement impaired -2 m/ phase. CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. SAME AS OVER but handicap is -3 m /phase. 8 SERIOUS: bleed time 10 min. Nerve damage loss of STR -1 . Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 5 min. SAME AS OVER . Hemorrhaging 9 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min .Loss of toes. AG – 1 Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 2 ½ min. SAME AS OVER but -2 Hemorrhaging 10 SERIOUS: bleed time 5 min. Muscle damage .STR-1. Internal Hemorrhaging CRITICAL: bleed time 2 1/2 min. Loss of limb. STR- ¼ round down. Internal Hemorrhaging. 5..COMPLICATIONS AND INFECTIONS : Infection and or complications can be the result of any wound no matter the wound severity level.Character must make a check against CONSTITUTION. GM decides if check is easy ,average or difficult depending on circumstances and wound type .Burns are more prone to infection etc . The GM consults his damage results table to determine complication if any . (TABLE 6) ,depending on CON check result is applied . Proper first aid or rapid medical treatment will improve chance of avoiding a bad result .In many climates and environments this must done immediately or within minutes of the injury . SUCCESSFUL FIRST AID FOLLOWS WOUND SEVERITY. Pers.med kit +1 ,doctors med kit+2. One attempt allowed pr turn (6th phase) Most complications are readily treatable ,and are a matter of time and resources. Others require more effort , and some are difficult to recover fully from . 6. COMPLICATIONS AND INFECTIONS TABLE D10 RESULT EFFECT ON WOUNDED CHARACTER 1 CON/EASY* SLIGHT: - SERIOUS: - CRITICAL: small infection. EASY:MEDICAL to treat 2 CON/EASY* SLIGHT: - SERIOUS: small infection .EASY:MEDICAL to treat CRITICAL: small infection. EASY: MEDICAL to treat 3 CON/EASY* SLIGHT: - SERIOUS: slight infection. EASY:MEDICAL to treat CRITICAL: slight infection. EASY:MEDICAL to treat 4 CON/AVG* SLIGHT: slight infection. EASY:MEDICAL to treat SERIOUS: medium infection. AVG:MEDICAL to treat CRITICAL: medium infection. AVG:MEDICAL to treat 5 CON/AVG* SLIGHT: medium infection. AVG:MEDICAL to treat SERIOUS: medium infection. AVG:MEDICAL to treat CRITICAL: serious infection. DIFFICULT:MEDICAL to treat 6 CON/AVG* SLIGHT: medium infection. AVG:MEDICAL to treat SERIOUS: medium infection. AVG:MEDICAL to treat CRITICAL: serious infection. DIFFICULT:MEDICAL to treat 7 CON/DIFF* SLIGHT: medium infection. AVG:MEDICAL to treat SERIOUS: serious infection. DIFFICULT:MEDICAL to treat CRITICAL: SEPSIS. Surgery needed AVG:MED. 8 CON/DIFF* SLIGHT: Serious infection. DIFFICULT:MEDICAL to treat SERIOUS: : SEPSIS .Surgery needed AVG:MED. CRITICAL: SEPSIS. Surgery needed DIFFICULT:MED. 9 CON/DIFF* SLIGHT: Serious infection. DIFFICULT:MEDICAL to treat SERIOUS: : SEPSIS. Surgery needed AVG:MED. CRITICAL: SEPSIS. Surgery needed DIFFICULT:MED. 10 CON/DIFF* SLIGHT:SEPSIS. Surgery needed.AVG: MEDICAL SERIOUS:FRAGMENT. Surgery needed .DIFFICULT:MED. CRITICAL: Chronic sepsis due to fragments. 1D6 DIFF:MED Procedures needed. FIRST AID: INFECTION Untreated = -1D12 to location pr week SEPSIS Untreated= -1D6 to location pr day FRAGMENTS Untreated= -1 HP to location pr hour SURGERY : One attempt pr SKILL MEDICAL / 2 allowed pr 24 hours . Round result down .Skill 10 = 4 attempts pr 24 hrs. Surgical supplies required or penalties will occur Subtract 2 from roll on this table if successful first aid is received * GM makes hidden roll for CON too see if results /complication should be applied .Noting down all the hits a player character takes in the course of a session is a wise method to keep up.CON check can be modified by GM depending on circumstances i.e suffering burn wounds in a sewer might lead to increased risk of infection . |
#8
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a little sumpin`
just to inspire some of you before the next round..I am hoping I will get Saturday from the early afternoon and to the late night to play the T2K scenario.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...a%3DN%26um%3D1 recommended |
#9
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regarding the session
I got the friday off, but now i'm struggling to fix the saturday,losey employees.....
__________________
The Big Book of War - Twilight 2000 Filedump Site Guns don't kill people,apes with guns do. |
#10
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this goes in another thread
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I suggest SEASON 5 EPISODE 4 Winter sessions thread . It still sucks though -even when posted here .Give me a call on the comms. |
#11
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recommendation
For those of you who have interest and those of you who have questions - these are good films to obtain and get theoretical advice from.
http://www.magpul.com/catalog/index....71f0ebd64f9871 Practice is everything ,but these films have stuff that will work great in the campaign setting . Anyways - arriving in Oslo 28th of January app 1800 hrs. Hope that I will get the WHOLE saturday for my shit . Early start -late finish . Bring kleenex to wipe your faces from snot and tears from the brutal thrashing your PCs will be getting ! aahh.. the eve of battle ... |
#12
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well..
I just wanted to point out that since the game is a group effort ,playing together like comrades in arms is what I am after, and thus the maps are calculated so that there is at least 2 sectors to cover at most times..hopefully..
that way -relying on eachother is a nescessity and not an option ,and also I find it more sachlich I just thought the "check drills" or what you would call them would be fun to get going - to get everyone into a tactical flow of one-mindedness that lasted many high intensity phases - if that makes any sense. A mere 3 weeks to wait . Anticipaation! |
#13
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I'm all for it!
But if you happen have an good (preferably illustrated) source for specific combat drills, I'd be interested in reading up on the subject. One of our problems (IMHO) have been that we simply aren't familiar with squad level tactics in practice - no matter how many movies we've seen, actual knowledge shared by all would be a vast improvement in the tactics department. I would lament a transition to complete "sachlichkeit" if you will, but I reaally enjoy the moments when it approaches a feeling of simulation as opposed to a when it feels like being part of a gaudy troupe of hi-powered primadonnas lacking in cooperative skills |
#14
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scour the net
you got less than 3 weeks...
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#15
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more theory
http://www.cqb-team.com/tactical.html
again - I am not saying this is by any means great stuff , but it gets the general idea. So- this or other material like it - is recommended viewing /reading before cracking on with the next one imho. Failure to cooperate and maximize unit effectiveness will lead to fatalities and defeat in an area where there is no possibility of escape and survival can only be assured by victory. A bloodui mess is of corse good fun too. |
#16
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Cool!
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#17
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Found this in there: http://floorplanner.com/
Very nice for a stronger visualization of particular rooms, ja? |
#18
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nicht slecht aber here is the dogs bollocks
Quote:
app. 5 dollars pr plan . no go in my budgets. but do try and find similar stuff. Now - you have exactly 14 days in wich to find ,agree on and practise the nescessary drills . I suggest you get the guys with you and read up on it and do some talk throughs etc . You have the "infanteri offiser i felt " ? has a lot of good points . best of luck - you shall all need it and perhaps some backup characters too.. a little help on the way http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...%3Den%26um%3D1 http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...%3Den%26um%3D1 get to work HQ out |
#19
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Mottatt
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