Semi-OT: Detection of ETs

[pmulcahy11b]

I'm watching a show on the History Channel about possible visitations by ETs to the Earth. Supposedly, there have been several radar returns and even tracking of these UFOs.

My question is: How? We have stealth technology that can reduce the radar return of an aircraft the size of a B-2 Spirit to that of a bumblebee, as well as greatly reduce the IR signature. It seems that a civilization capable of crossing the stars would have stealth capabilities beyond out imagination, maybe up to outright invisibility to the entire electromagnetic spectrum. I can't imagine that any technology on earth could detect them if they didn't want to be seen.

And that's the only thing I could think of for any possible detections of UFOs -- they don't care if they're seen, because they consider us to be no threat since our weapons are too primitive to bother them.

[SongofWar]

Mind if I ask what show it was Paul?

Maybe they detect the plasma trail during reentry or something like that? As for tracking them in the atmosphere, there are also instances of hundreds of people seeing something that radar can't detect. Perhaps, as you say, they don't give a damn, or perhaps they have different detection methods wherever these so called ET's are allegedly from, and aren't accustomed to dealing with radar?


I just realized I should post more often in here, mostly I just lurk as you guys are so interesting to read.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by SongofWar

I just realized I should post more often in here, mostly I just lurk as you guys are so interesting to read.

I don't remember the exact name of the episode, but it was an episode of the science series Universe.

As for posting, by all means yes! More is better here!

[Kellhound]

Maybe their stealth technology is designed for sensors more advanced than our primitive radars, so once in a while "they" forget to turn on the device that allows them to fool our operators

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by Kellhound

Maybe their stealth technology is designed for sensors more advanced than our primitive radars, so once in a while "they" forget to turn on the device that allows them to fool our operators

Agreed - sort of like a soft hitech ballistic vest that stops a 30-06 FMJ , but isnt adapted to stop a spear thrust..


But another possibility spring to mind - maybe they want to be tracked ? perhaps they are testing things like response time,behaviour and capacity ?

Sort of like poking a straw into the anthill .

Another possibility of course -the UFOs arnt vessels carrying beings of immense wisdom and technological prowess- they are accidental happenings related to some poor sod engagig warp drive on a faulty unit somewhere and a whizza and some eerie humming/green light pulses later they find themselves above an alien planet -the only habitat in the system.

well - seems I shall get no closer to the truth about the startravellers than the Mayans-great snakes in the sky or flying saucers and other cookware...

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

But another possibility spring to mind - maybe they want to be tracked ? perhaps they are testing things like response time,behaviour and capacity ?

Sort of like poking a straw into the anthill .

Another possibility of course -the UFOs arnt vessels carrying beings of immense wisdom and technological prowess- they are accidental happenings related to some poor sod engagig warp drive on a faulty unit somewhere and a whizza and some eerie humming/green light pulses later they find themselves above an alien planet -the only habitat in the system.

well - seems I shall get no closer to the truth about the startravellers than the Mayans-great snakes in the sky or flying saucers and other cookware...

Well, first point -- I hadn't thought about that -- but then again, the Soviets and ourselves used to do that all the time during the Cold War.

The second point -- I'm reminded of something Mr. Scott said during (IIRC) the 4th Star Trek movie: "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to gum up the works."

The third point -- I'm reminded of (again, IIRC) Arthur C Clarke's saying: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[headquarters]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Well, first point -- I hadn't thought about that -- but then again, the Soviets and ourselves used to do that all the time during the Cold War.

The second point -- I'm reminded of something Mr. Scott said during (IIRC) the 4th Star Trek movie: "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to gum up the works."

The third point -- I'm reminded of (again, IIRC) Arthur C Clarke's saying: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I guess we would be the ones gawking and oohing and aahing when the visitors pulled their "galaxy-mart" bought merchandize out and started treating sick and levitating stuff.

Kind of funny in a way - well if they are out there ,and not just some elaborate desinformation plot - I wonder what the h*** they want with us -most dangerous species in the universe given sufficient technology ( firepower).

The movie "Outlander " had a few glimpses of interest as someone already said here - Earth being and abandonded "Seed Colony".

Speaking of movies with norse men with bad tempers and long knives I recommend the Norwegian film "the Pathfinder" - brilliant film .

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093668/

I saw the Hollywood adaptation not long ago..yuck..Hot Indian chicks though.

sorry -OT in an OT .

Reigning in :

I am a cynical pragmatic with a romantic heart so I got to say that I think there are vast "empire like " civilizations out there ,advanced enough in technology and resources to explore space .If the universe is infinite (a common perception today ) there is little in the way of evidence to argue against the possibility of intelligent life,advanced technology,ancient races benevolently ruling space with their white tunics and high browed bald heads..
( dang..I always wanted the women to be extra terrestrial hot - and the whole bald headed giga forehead doesnt do it for me..well, I would try of course)

The beaviour of our contacts are baffling indeed.Sometimes seen,sometimes trying to avoid detection or contact and possibly sometimes a pure mess -like crashes on our planet surface in rural south western US communities etc .

All this messing about leads me to conclude that the task of monitoring "earth" has been given to the military out there in Galaxy HQ...

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

well if they are out there ,and not just some elaborate desinformation plot - I wonder what the h*** they want with us -most dangerous species in the universe given sufficient technology ( firepower).

I think it was Heinlein who said that when mankind does get to the stars, our greatest export will be mercenaries...

Anyway, I'm sort of of two minds on this. One would be that a fellow intelligent race that has sufficient enlightenment and development might welcome us into the fold, and even try to save their "lesser brethren."

And then I remember what Arthur C Clarke wrote in Chapter 37 of 2001:

And because, in all the galaxy, they had found nothing more precious than Mind, they encouraged its dawning everywhere. They became farmers in the fields of stars; they sowed, and sometimes they reaped.

And sometimes, dispassionately, they had to weed.


I don't actually think that ET's are responsible for mankind's creation, but what if they do feel the need to weed?

And then, there's Kurt Vonnegut's take on ETs: Suppose you come across a fire ant. Do you bend down and say, "Hello! I am going to teach you how to make fire! I am going to teach you how to build and create a civilization!"

No, you step on it and squash it. It might bite you.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by headquarters

( dang..I always wanted the women to be extra terrestrial hot - and the whole bald headed giga forehead doesnt do it for me..well, I would try of course)

That's the biggest thing that makes think against "The Greys" and the abduction stories I've read about. ETs would come with from a planet with a radically-different evolutionary history; why would they look anything like us, or even vaguely-humanoid?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

My question is: How? We have stealth technology that can reduce the radar return of an aircraft the size of a B-2 Spirit to that of a bumblebee, as well as greatly reduce the IR signature.

And yet they're still detected half way around the world by Australia's Jindalee "Over the horizon" radar system - little more than a few computers plugged into a barbed wire fence.

Nothing is perfect. As much as some would like to think "their" stealth technology is undetectable, somebody else sees it as a bright glowing dot on a screen. Hopefully it's an allies screen and not the enemies....

[Matt Wiser]

UFO behavior is often unusual; but some of the operators may not care if they're tracked or not. If a saucer gets picked up by radar and interceptors are scrambled, they may want to "have fun with the natives." They ought to know that this can be a very dangerous place; every air force at one time or another has tried to shoot them down. Some may be research scientists (psychologists, sociologists, etc), so seeing a disk do backflips may be the science officer's suggestion of "doing something to get a reaction out of the locals." (UFOs doing backflips have been mentioned in several UFO books) Some may be tourists, and consider our reaction (scrambling jets, firing SAMs, etc.) part of the tour. Others may be joy-riders, out for some fun "scaring those primitives on Earth." Some do want to play games, and not just with fighters: one case invoving a police chase in Ohio (the Portage County chase from 17 Apr 1966) had three Ohio lawmen chasing a UFO for 85 miles into PA at speeds exceeding 105 MPH, and one deputy said "the spedometer rarely got below 80", but anyway, the UFO would slow down when the black-and-whites got into a town, and often hovered on the other edge of the town, as if waiting for the patrol cars to catch up. When they got within a hundred feet or so, the UFO would speed up. Maybe the UFO operators knew cops when they saw them, and decided to have some fun. Who knows? Maybe it's a combination of the above, or reasons we just don't know yet. But the latter case does raise one question: what would the cops have done if they'd caught the UFO? Give them a ticket?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

And yet they're still detected half way around the world by Australia's Jindalee "Over the horizon" radar system - little more than a few computers plugged into a barbed wire fence.

Nothing is perfect. As much as some would like to think "their" stealth technology is undetectable, somebody else sees it as a bright glowing dot on a screen. Hopefully it's an allies screen and not the enemies....

I'm guessing low-frequency radar? Combine enough computing power with low-frequency radar and a stealth aircraft shows almost as large as a normal aircraft. There are some military experts that believe that current stealth designs will remain stealthy for only about 15 years or so.

[Legbreaker]

No idea. All I know is what I was told by an ex navy electronics specialist who'd moved over to the army unit I was in at the time (early 90's).

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

I'm guessing low-frequency radar? Combine enough computing power with low-frequency radar and a stealth aircraft shows almost as large as a normal aircraft. There are some military experts that believe that current stealth designs will remain stealthy for only about 15 years or so.

I also heard that continuous wave radar, pulsed, like we had in World War II, would also detect stealth aircraft.

I think another thing to consider, if not likely but we must keep the door open, is maybe their technology might skipped something. It is like one short story where aliens called, "The Roxolani," they look like teddy bears, somehow found the secret to easily break the light barrier (that continued to elude us) for FTL travel, yet with some exceptions, most of there technology is at the 18t Century level. They come down to Earth to fight us with muskets and so on and we beat their butts royally.

It's like those stories you hear about ancient atomic wars 10,000 years ago. If we give it the benefit of the doubt, one thing I would be interested in is how they built their nukes. Would they be implosion similar to ours, what and how would they use for nuclear triggers and so on.

Chuck