An observation? (OT but something that has bugged me)

[kato13]

Jason Weiser 06-26-2004, 01:11 PM Ok folks, as some know, and others do not, I have my feet in both sci-fi (Battletech mostly, but also GZG, especially Full Thrust), and Historicals (Mostly 20mm WWII but that is expanding to modern micro armor (actually reentering it) and 15mm RCW). And I also RPG when I can (these days a lot of Vampire LARP with the wife, but I long for some tabletop GURPS or T2K or 2300).


What do I write about? What is it with the differences in Historical Gamers versus the rest of the hobby? Most historical guys, well, to be honest, seem to have the social graces of a gnat. Not saying all, but I left my own wargiming club over some severe differences of opinion and some political matters (another facet of Historical Wargaming I find odious!)


But in the BT side of things, we have our jerks, Raulfestone being a perfect example, but for the most part, we're fairly well adjusted folks, not wondering when the latest batch of silliness is going to come down from on high (You may complain abt FFE, as do I, but read up on HMGS East sometime).


I love playing Historicals, but I don't love a lot of the folks who make up the hobby. What's a guy like me to do? And why do you think we're better adjusted? (As an example, my former club had members stay there all weekend so they didn't have to spend it with the GASP! wife and kids. It was pretty pathetic to watch).

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ReHerakhte 06-26-2004, 05:54 PM Hey Jason, I understand your frustration. I have had somewhat similar experiences but not to the same degree as you.


For a lot of different reasons I suspect that the majority of the T2k crowd is one of the better adjusted and friendly groups I've been associated with but I always thought that was because many of us were a little older than the typical RPGer.

Then I got involved with Advanced Squad Leader, I really like the game but found that the players were in two distinct groups: - those who enjoyed it for a mind-challenging way to spend the afternoon and those who insisted that it be some sort of hard-core recreation of WW2 so they could have some kind of metaphysical experience of the war. And many of these guys were older than me so the maturity I thought came from older gamers became doubtful.


I have found a number of players younger than me have been into whatever RPG because it was just plain 'good old fun' but some of the older gamers insisted on adhering to some perverse sense of realism... and in this case this was in a DnD game, high fantasy of the hack&slash sort for heavens sake!


I don't understand it myself, I enjoy gaming for the social aspect and for the challenge of overcoming the problems the character faces during the game, but I have met a few people who insisted that gaming be some sort of mystical exploration of the nature of humanity... and all I wanted was to have the character drive around in a big, fast car with a bag full of guns and hunt monsters (Dark Conspiracy).


I can't offer any solutions sorry but I do sympathize


Cheers,

Kevin

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Grimace 06-26-2004, 06:16 PM Well I guess I lucked out then, compared to what you two have mentioned. I started out with board games, got into historical board games, dabbled in roleplaying, dabbled in miniature wargaming, and now I'm pretty much only a roleplayer (though I long to play a good wargame every now and then).


I've only seem mild cases of what you two mentioned. I think something that tempers the hard cores I game with is that we also game with relative newbs in the wargaming field. It's hard to be real nitpicky and keep everything historical when one of your teammates has no idea what the historical basis is, and just does what "seemed right at the time". The worst I've seen with the guys I've played is a fellow who was a complete rule monger. Must....adhere....to....rules....by....the.....let ter!


I think some people turn it into an obsession, and some just enjoy the thrill. There's blurring between the two, as I've seen with other people I've gamed with. I'm firmly in the second category though. I enjoy the thrill of playing.


Truth be told...I'd rather have a fun game of wargaming or miniatures over a game of roleplaying anyday, but I can't find people who will consistantly stick with the games to make it fun.

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dawg180 06-28-2004, 09:55 AM From what I have seen it is a control issue. Squad Leader (or most any Avalon Hill game) is based on strict rules and a codified system, and the people who *typically* enjoy the game are the ones who like a very structured environment, i.e. "rules lawyers."


Role Players, by the very nature of the system they use, have to be more flexible, although they still have their share of "rules lawyers." I have a "friend" who is one of these (and is extremely social maladjustecd- we are pretty sure he will never move out of his parents house) and when we play D&D he is the totally usses the rules and the system to his advantage. Once he tried to play in a home brew system of mine and almost had some kind of fit because I wouldn't let him see the rules system.


I will take a stretch here, but in my experience the "Rules Lawyers" are the people who totally don't have their life togther, so they tend to want a rigid system of rules to define their gaming world. i.e. they can't get their sh*t together in the real world so they go overboard in the gaming one.


I have also seen a lot of this with LARP players- I would say two out of the three I know have a hard time holding a job, paying rent, being socailly adept, and generally suriving in real life, but in game they have a defined set of rules on how life works so they can be super-powerful people.


Not to offend anyone here, just pointing out what I have personally seen.

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ed 06-28-2004, 03:19 PM the wargamers i've known have never been in any way distinguishable from the RPGers i've known, where those 2 didn't overlap. i have noticed that as a rule, wargamers do tend to be more conservative (almost invariably socially, but also economically) WRT politics. but as to social graces, i've never particularly noticed any distinctions, myself.


ed

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ChalkLine 07-06-2004, 07:54 PM I can't base all wargamers on my few encounters with them, but I do know I went to a few meetings and they were so rude to myself and the people I brought along that we never went back, I still cop stick from my friends over it when the conversation comes around to bad calls ("Hey Jim, remember the wargamers!?")


Generally this club seemed to consist of two types of people, quiet people with a passion and loud cheats. One guy even told me that cheating is okay, the other guy should be watching and should know the rules, to be fair the guys I knew who were in the club loathed this character.


Typical of many small social hobbies, prats like this could not be excluded comfortably because he at least turned up each month, the others tolerated him because he occasionally would pretend to be socially qualified to sit in a room full of strangers. It's just a case of biting the bullet and booting these jerks if we want clubs like WGers have to grow, we had to boot a moron out of our medieval club and were all amazed that in the six months after the club doubled in size, less active players returned and new people stayed.

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