Poll - Favorite Battle Rifle

[chico20854]

OK, it seems I've been remiss in the polls... folks like Battle Rifles more than Assault Rifles.

So here's a poll for your favorite full-caliber semi-automatic rifle. I'd say detachable magazine, but I want to include the M-1 Garand for those hard-core history buffs out there, if any...

And keep in mind that with our user group, there are a lot more folks that used the L1A1/FAL (Australians and Brits) and M-14/M1A (Americans) than the G-3 (Norwegians), so that may skew the results...

[pmulcahy11b]

That was a hard one. I've actually had some range time with an M-1 Garand and it was fun, but I wouldn't have to fight with a powerful cartridge in a general-purpose rifle. The AR-10 has good ergonomics, and the FAL is an excellent rifle, but they're both too light for automatic fire.

[Legbreaker]

Having only used the L1A1, SKS and SKK, my vote is for the L1A1 SLR.
A good, solid weapon which if taken care of and fitted with the marksman's leaf battle sights (smaller peep hole in reat than the standard issue) extremely accurate (it's not bad with the standard leaf either as long as the shooter can handle the larger sight picture).

I've also used the heavier barrelled automatic version which I found to be a reasonable support weapon if firing short bursts from the bipod. It does have a high rate of fire and only 30 round mags though, which are nowhere near enough for a sustained fight (even if a decent supply of mags is available).

I'd have been more than happy to take one home to use as a hunting rifle.

[jester]

The M14 is there. That is enough. The FAL/L1A1 is nice and a very good platform, but it doesn't have the accuracy that the M14 platform has and that in my view places it well over the top.

It is not just about volume of fire or the power of the cartridge, but it is ACCURATE FIRE which is key. And that allows you to use the benefit of the weapon. That also is one of the reasons I tend to go with the 16 over the AK, accuracy and range, as for reliability, just clean your weapon and it will work, simple.

PS: I do own an L1A1, the Canadian variant and it is very accurate but there is no arraingmenet for windage so a mam sized target is hard to get past 300m.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by jester

I do own an L1A1, the Canadian variant and it is very accurate but there is no arraingmenet for windage so a mam sized target is hard to get past 300m.

Even 16 years after I last laid hands on an L1A1 I can say with absolute CERTAINTY there most definately IS windage adjustment contained within the rear leaf sight mounting.
You'll note two screws, on on each side. By loosening one half a turn and tightening the other half a turn you adjust the sight. I can't remember how far half a turn puts the point of impact at what range though.

If yor weapon does not have these two screws, you don't have an authentic weapon (at least not the right rear sight).

Even as a machinegunner, I was still able to score in the top 5% of may infantry battalion using the L1A1 and standard battle sights. You just need to know how to zero it properly and follow through on your shots.
The army states it's range to be effective to 300 metres and harrassing to 600 metres - in good hands it's accurate well over those battlefield ranges.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Even as a machinegunner, I was still able to score in the top 5% of may infantry battalion using the L1A1 and standard battle sights. You just need to know how to zero it properly and follow through on your shots.
The army states it's range to be effective to 300 metres and harrassing to 600 metres - in good hands it's accurate well over those battlefield ranges.

True. After I had zeroed my SLR I scored 100% against man sized targets on the 600m pop-up range on my very first range practice in the Army Reserve. I was lucky, it turned out I was a natural at land navigation and shooting. I certainly wasn't the perfect soldier in other areas though.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by jester

PS: I do own an L1A1, the Canadian variant and it is very accurate but there is no arraingmenet for windage so a mam sized target is hard to get past 300m.

That would be the C1 rifle and not the L1A1. The Canadians used a different rear sight to the British and Australia SLRs although I can't imagine they would not include windage adjustment and I think it is exactly the same as found on the British and Australian rifles and indeed the entire FN FAL/SLR range. From the images I've seen of the M14 it has a drum you can dial for windage making life very easy, the L1A1 philosophy is that you shouldn't be doing those changes on the battlefield.

I can tell you without any fear of contradiction that the Australian issue L1A1 most definitely has an arrangement for windage, two screws on either side of the rear body upon which the rear sight block sits. You adjust both of them to shift the entire block left or right, once set for the person using that rifle, you aren't supposed to adjust it again. The idea being that a rifleman should know his rifle & abilities well enough to shoot off if he needs to take windage into account - if you really need to adjust for windage by changing the sight itself, by the time you finish mucking about with altering the sight to shoot at someone, they're already gone.

[fightingflamingo]

chico know's why I feel the way I do, now if only he'd buy one...

[chico20854]

Originally Posted by fightingflamingo

chico know's why I feel the way I do, now if only he'd buy one...

Hey, my Garand is beautiful... like new

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/v...ice%20Special/ (not mine, but from the same batch...)

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by chico20854

Hey, my Garand is beautiful... like new

http://s695.photobucket.com/albums/v...ice%20Special/ (not mine, but from the same batch...)

Oh, those pics are better than porn!

[Raellus]

Wish I had a Garand...

I picked the G-3. I've never fired any of the guns on the list but I chose it because it looks shorter and handier than the FN FAL (and, as opposed to the SLR version, is full auto capable) and it has a pistol grip. Some of the tricked out versions used by German and Norwegian commandos look pretty flippin' sweet too.

[Legbreaker]

As a point of interest, the L1A1 SLR can be easily converted to fire automatically by several methods. Two that I know of involve a match stick inserted inside or simply removing the safety catch. Of course it's not exactly a great idea as the barrel is a bit light to cope and you loose the ability for single shots (not to mention a working safety!)

A third option is judicious application of a file to the safety which both removes the exterior "lug" from the safety which prevents it rotating around to the Auto setting (the L1A1 is marked with an auto setting even though it's not actually able to fire that way), and a little work on the same peice internally.

[leonpoi]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Wish I had a Garand...

I picked the G-3. I've never fired any of the guns on the list but I chose it because it looks shorter and handier than the FN FAL (and, as opposed to the SLR version, is full auto capable) and it has a pistol grip. Some of the tricked out versions used by German and Norwegian commandos look pretty flippin' sweet too.

I second that!

[Tegyrius]

FN 49. Beautiful.

Does need bigger and detachable magazines, though.

- C.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Tegyrius

FN 49. Beautiful.

Does need bigger and detachable magazines, though.

- C.

That's why they made the FAL
But I agree, the FN-49 is a nice, classic rifle, just a shame they made it with a fixed magazine or it may have lasted as long as some of its contemporaries (I suppose it could be argued that it lived on in the FAL in way the Garand lived on in the Italian BM59)

[micromachine]

Despite the drawbacks of the M-1 Garand (weight, limited ammo, the "ping"), I would take it in a heartbeat, particularly if based in North America. .30-06 packs the one round knockdown, is accurate, and would make an excellent hand to hand weapon (particularly with the bayonet attached) when the ammunition is exhausted.

[Legbreaker]

It's partly the lack of weight and size that makes me lean away from assault rifles and towards the heavier battle rifles (although primarily the greater punch of a 7.62).
Assault rifles such as the M16 (especially) and Steyr AUG just aren't suited for bayonet work - their ability to accept a blade seems more like an afterthought.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It's partly the lack of weight and size that makes me lean away from assault rifles and towards the heavier battle rifles (although primarily the greater punch of a 7.62).
Assault rifles such as the M16 (especially) and Steyr AUG just aren't suited for bayonet work - their ability to accept a blade seems more like an afterthought.

Hell yeah. And being on the receiving end of a butt stroke-smash combination from an enraged soldier swinging an SLR would be devastating too. That weapon is externally damn near unbreakable.

[Legbreaker]

Try that with an M16 and you'll end up with nothing but shattered plastic disintergrating in your hands.
Of course a butt stroke with an M60 is even nastier.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Try that with an M16 and you'll end up with nothing but shattered plastic disintergrating in your hands.
Of course a butt stroke with an M60 is even nastier.

When I went to basic, they let us use real M-16A1s on the bayonet assault course since the training battalion was slated to re-equip with M-16A2s. Hilarity ensued... I got off lucky, I only shattered my handguards. We had snapped-off stocks, bent barrels, cracked pistol grips, and lot, lots, of shattered and missing handguards. We had to do a special range walk to pick up all the pieces.

But we completed the course!

Edit: screwed that up. The 4th ITB was getting newer M-16A1s as the regular units were getting the M-16A2s. I hate when I screw up a good story!

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Try that with an M16 and you'll end up with nothing but shattered plastic disintergrating in your hands.
Of course a butt stroke with an M60 is even nastier.

And then you rake their face with your bipod (if it's retracted).

[Schone23666]

Hmm, once again old poll. What is it with me and old polls? That's polls, mind you, not strip club poles....er, nevermind, back on topic.

But it seems I picked the G-3. Oh well, hey, you can't go wrong with German engineering, right? Don't want to sound like an H&K fanboy, but they do make some pretty decent firearms. That plus, G-3's along with spare parts and the ammunition can be found in various parts of the world and aren't too hard to find. Perhaps not as common as the FN FAL, but they're around.

Then again, in all honesty, perhaps the best answer to "favorite battle rifle" would be, IMHO, whatever is actually AVAILABLE, is reasonably accurate, and above all else, DOES THE JOB.

[CDAT]

I went with the M-14 as it is the only one I have any experience with.

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

Along this line, what do you think the possibility that that drop-in auto sear kits (such as those that used to be for sale for the AR-15 back in the mid-1960s) would make a comeback? Would governments start making them again to give out to their militias?

I would say some place between none and zero, I know it is the cool thing with the games (both rpg/table top and video type) to have full auto, but in real life it would be almost useless on most of these. Short of using it as a replacement for the LMG/SAW, most people would not be able to hit anything with it on full auto.

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

It have the accuracy of a Brown Bess, it can get hot enough to burn your hand under sustained fire, say what you will, drop it in sand or mud, take it from the tropics to the artic and back, lose parts and have some 3rd World blacksmith beat out a replacement part, but the AK has one thing going for it...its works under any and all conditions. Something that can't be said for a lot of high tech wonders that the West/NATO issues to its troops.

I hear things like this all the time from fans of the AK, but my first hand experience with them in Iraq, does not back up most of this. Yes it will get hot enough to burn you, it can do it within one magazine on semi-auto if fired quickly enough (not a selling point to me), most of the ones that I got to deal with the accuracy went from OK (for the best of them) to shooting patterns out of a bench rest. We also had several that had to be chopped up as they would nor work due to lack of maintenance, we had more of the AK's go down due to lack of maintenance than AR's. So my experience with them is they are not something I would trust my life to, unlike the AR.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by CDAT

I went with the M-14 as it is the only one I have any experience with.


I would say some place between none and zero, I know it is the cool thing with the games (both rpg/table top and video type) to have full auto, but in real life it would be almost useless on most of these. Short of using it as a replacement for the LMG/SAW, most people would not be able to hit anything with it on full auto.


I hear things like this all the time from fans of the AK, but my first hand experience with them in Iraq, does not back up most of this. Yes it will get hot enough to burn you, it can do it within one magazine on semi-auto if fired quickly enough (not a selling point to me), most of the ones that I got to deal with the accuracy went from OK (for the best of them) to shooting patterns out of a bench rest. We also had several that had to be chopped up as they would nor work due to lack of maintenance, we had more of the AK's go down due to lack of maintenance than AR's. So my experience with them is they are not something I would trust my life to, unlike the AR.

After action reports indicated poor repair of Ak's as a major factor in the poor performance of various insurgence actions. Yes its rugged but it needs PM too. Od Soviet policy was to loan out older weapons when new stuff was issued, so one wants to take care of it. An M14 with a synthetic stock and a scope is a handy thing to have. I went with an AR10 variant since 60% of the parts are AR15/M16.