MP Airforce

[rcaf_777]

Here's an idea that I am working on, a group of five aircraft operating in a COIN role I was think of P-51D Mustangs, I mean small aircraft, easy to fly and carry a guns and bombs, and they fly from improvised runways, still trying to work out some details, well post once done, any thoughs

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Here's an idea that I am working on, a group of five aircraft operating in a COIN role I was think of P-51D Mustangs, I mean small aircraft, easy to fly and carry a guns and bombs, and they fly from improvised runways, still trying to work out some details, well post once done, any thoughs

RCAF,

Have you thought something more and proven and/or designed for COIN like the OV-10 Bronco? Or if you want something more WWII-ish, the good old Skyraider? With these multirole planes you carry a lot more munitions, plus they can carry passengers too.

While the Mustang certainly can carry out ground-attack roles (and tangle with any 4th Reich FW-190s to boot) they would seem a little on the exotic side.

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

I have to agree with Tony, the ole Bronco or Spad would be better choices. The Bronco has turboshaft engines and the Spad, has a great big, old-fashioned radial, one that you can shoot a couple of cylinder heads off and it'll still work.

The Bronco also has the advantage of having a cargo bay, useful for light loads and it can even drop 3-4 paratroopers!

The Spad has four 20mm cannons for strafing and carry quite an extensive ordnance load for a long time.

The Mustang uses a liquid-cooled RR Merlin, the radiator and coolant lines all run down the belly of the fuselage, NOT a good location when working close to the ground (as an aside, most of the Mustangs lost were due to ground fire). Ordnance loadout is limited as well, there are only two hardpoints.

[rcaf_777]

I choses the Mustang due to is size, beacuse your going to have take it apart to have fit underground for storage, the mustang will just fit a 40 Ft Seacan, I also though the MP would'nt want to attractive attention by building a some what modern frontline combat aircraft, I ,mean mustangs are used for racing and by aircraft collectors, so a small compnay building mustangs would be not be out of place. But I do like the Skyraider but can is operate from small grass fields, I mean was it a carrier based aircraft? You will need a aircraft and fly off any small airfeild since I woudl assume that COIN unit would move around based on the local security concerns. I also though that the MP could try and start a plant building and training pliots for this aircraft, (an idea I though about after reading the In the Ashes Series)

[dragoon500ly]

The Spad started life as the replacement for the TBF Avengers in carrier air wings, it was used in Korea from the modified Essex-class carriers as well as with the Marine attack squadrons, so it is capable of short take off as well as rough strip usage. Of the three proposed, the Bronco is the best at short take off and was purpose built for rough fields.

Just a couple of suggestions, but you may want to consider a couple of other aircraft. From the Vietnam-era how about the CV-2B Caribou, a purpose-built short-take off from rough stips cargo carrier. Its a twin-radial engine, high wing design that has a crew of 3, has a cruising speed of 150mph and a useful endurance of 6hrs, 30mins and a max load of 9,924lbs it could carry up to 32 troops or 20 litters w/2 medics. I know its not a COIN bird, but...it could be modified into a poor man's gunship! And you get the ability to transport a useful load of cargo.

Just a thought!

[rcaf_777]

Here the problem that I have here are the lenghts of the above metioned aircraft

P-51D Mustang - Length 37 ft
A-1 Skyraider - Length 38 ft 10 in
CV-2 Caribou - Length 72 ft

In the United States domestic standard containers are generally 48 ft and 53-ft. This is what I had though would make a good bolt hole it would shape in 12 spoke wheel here what I have for contents

Underground Layout

Center Ring Elevator/Access

Containers 1-5 One 51-D Mustang COIN Aircraft
Container 6 Portable Machine Shop
Container 7 Spare Parts
Container 8 Airfield Equipment – see below
Container 9 Airfield Equipment – see below
Container 10 Ammunition
Container 11 Aircraft Tug and APU
Container 12 Bolthole with Bugout Vehicle

still working on the team layout too

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I choses the Mustang due to is size, beacuse your going to have take it apart to have fit underground for storage, the mustang will just fit a 40 Ft Seacan, I also though the MP would'nt want to attractive attention by building a some what modern frontline combat aircraft.

RCAF,

I think MP aircraft (rotor and pro-driven) can be fitted with fusion-electric motors, even jet propulsion (via MHD turbine). Because this gets into "HAAM expensive" territory I don't see MP aircraft aircraft as being common but there could be some useful ones stashed here and there, say, a dozen or so.

As far as technical notes go a Mustang with a fusion-electric power plant would be less vulnerable but there are probably platforms that give you a much better bang for your buck. Further, like the Bronco the Spad/Skyraider can have passenger seats (12) installed in the rear fuselage or be used as an air ambulance. If you're looking for ground attack aircraft that isn't used by the US or a front-line aircraft, other contenders might be a licenced version of the FMA IA 58 Pucará for "foreign military sales".

The Bronco was technically a front-line aircraft in the canon timeline, although it was being replaced by OV-37s and Warthogs in the 80's. Assuming the Project expects to be activated some time in the 90's or later, the Bronco is no longer going to be a front line platform. The Skyraider much less so, of course.

It's important to remember that almost no Project equipment or weapons need be former military surplus or relics, and government intervention need rarely be an issue, if at all. Military weapons and vehicles are built by private companies all the time, in fact, they pretty much all are. (That is, via "defense contractors".)

"Morrow Aerospace" (a hypothetical wholly-owned subsidiary of Morrow Industries) could build armed Broncos under licence (that is, legally) from North American-Rockwell International (if it isn't already a COT-owned company) for "foreign military sales/export", "technology demonstrators" and/or "prototypes offered for future USAF/USMC military sales". Presuming that Morrow Industries is already a major US defence contractor, as long as the paperwork is in order and the taxes paid the US government wouldn't think twice.

In the real world, Boeing is developing the OV-10X to offer to the USAF and because of growing interest from foreign customers; it's not like they worry about the feds breaking down their doors, guns drawn!

It's unlikely that new Spads/Skyraiders could be built, but they are common enough and some Morrrow/COT company could be contracted to refurbish and update some found in a warehouse for a 3rd-world US ally (Guatamala? Colombia? Indonesia?) as COIN aircraft under some US-funded 80's drug war/communist insurgency program. Of course, the orders eventually "fall through" (due to bribery, corruption, budge cuts, etc.) and Morrow Industries is left holding the bag. The same slight-of-hand could be used to legitimately and legally build Broncos that are diverted for Project use.

Actually operating out of a bolthole or similar small cramped installation would be the least desirable option under almost any circumstances. With STOL aircraft the teams using COIN aircraft would first try and secure aboveground facilities, preferably at an airport or air base and then move the aircraft there in a disassembled or partially assembled state. If that's not possible, STOL aircraft like the Bronco could operate out of any group of buildings big enough to store it, given a suitably straight stretch of pavement. Teams need to get out and see the world more...

Tony

[Old_Bear7729]

May I suggest the following aircraft for possible use by the Project at different times during it's history.

Initial Setup

When the project was being set up in the 1960's it bought surplus military aircraft from the US and other friendly governments which had sold for scrapping these included the following:

• Vought F4U Corsair Fighter Bombers
• Douglas B-26 Invaders
• Douglas C-47 Dakotas
• Sikorsky H-34 Choctaw Heliocopters
• Grumman HU-16 Albatross Amphibians

Main Stage
During the main stage of the project being installed the following aircraft where obtained secretly from companies allied to the Council of Tomorrow. These models were stock models as supplied to the US Armed Forces at the time.

• North American OV-10 Bronco LAARP
• DHC-4 Caribou STOL utility transport
• Lockheed C-141 Starlifters
• Hughes OH-6 LOH
• Sikorsky S-61R Medium Lift Heliocopter
• Sikorsky S-65 Heavy Lift Helicopter

Some of these Aircraft, especially the OV-10 Bronco, were later updated with more advanced avionics and fusion powered engines.

GM's Notes
If you want to have a WWII Fighter in a cache, I would go for the Corsair, it is rugged, reliable, more damage resistant and carries a more heavier warload than a P-51, it also has folding wings, so it is easier to store. Same for the B-26, a most excellent Light Bomber with a good warload and still in service in the 1960's with the USAF and other air forces.
I personally feel that the OV-10 Bronco is the perfect aircraft for the Project, in fact, If I ever get round to running a MP game, in my campaign, the Bronco replaces the Airscout as the Project's primary recon and strike aircraft.