RPG Forums

Go Back   RPG Forums > Role Playing Game Section > Twilight 2000 Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-08-2011, 12:31 AM
raketenjagdpanzer's Avatar
raketenjagdpanzer raketenjagdpanzer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,261
Default What was the plot-arc of Return to Europe?

Was there an overall plot arc or was it just "Hey, assuming your players didn't go home, here's some stuff that can happen in Europe."

I always thought that given the series of modules' subtitle of "Return to Europe" that it was in a sense for whatever reason US troops being sent back into action in Europe, which considering the state of the world at large a really, really weird thing to do. Even setting aside the logistical problems of moving anything other than a tiny handful of troops and whatever stuff they could carry, back across the Atlantic.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-08-2011, 03:25 AM
Legbreaker's Avatar
Legbreaker Legbreaker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 5,070
Default

"Plot arc"? What plot arc?
It was weak at best I'd have to say....

It's probably best to approach it using characters from units which didn't evacuate, or better yet, characters who a) didn't hear about the evacuation, and/or b) didn't care to return to organised military command and stayed well away from Germany.

The various "RTE" modules were little more than rewrites of the originals, using much of the same material, and recycling many of the same scenarios and plots. Return to Warsaw for example uses basically the same conflict and characters as Ruins of Warsaw. Even the Baron's forces are a close mirror with little real reduction from the events of 12 months prior.
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

Mors ante pudorem
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-08-2011, 03:57 AM
helbent4's Avatar
helbent4 helbent4 is offline
Volunteer Timeline Errata Coord.
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer View Post
Was there an overall plot arc or was it just "Hey, assuming your players didn't go home, here's some stuff that can happen in Europe."

I always thought that given the series of modules' subtitle of "Return to Europe" that it was in a sense for whatever reason US troops being sent back into action in Europe, which considering the state of the world at large a really, really weird thing to do. Even setting aside the logistical problems of moving anything other than a tiny handful of troops and whatever stuff they could carry, back across the Atlantic.
RakJpz,

It's not so strange when you read in White Eagle that the primary reason is that there was demand for more adventures in Poland.

"Return to Warsaw" and "White Eagle" essentially go back to the well, reprising "Ruins of Warsaw" and "Black Madonna" are second go-rounds with their respective villains (the Black Baron and Markgraf of Silesia). "Bear's Den" has a new villain, a bad-ass Soviet General, Chelkov.

On one hand there is no real strong connecting narrative arc for the adventures. That is, no one suggested agency or mechanism for involving the players in all three adventures, and they seem more or less independent. There are suggestions as to how involve the CIA and DIA in "Bear's Den" and "White Eagle" or if the players are operating independently. There's almost no set entry for "Return to Warsaw", just suggestions on how they get to Europe or if they would have stayed.

This is kind of weak on one hand, but on the other the GM can tailor the rationale for his particular group, which is probably for the best. In a way, these actually look like great adventures to run now, because many players will have done some or all of the first four Polish adventures (Madonna, Krakow, Vistula and/or Warsaw). It would be nice to revisit situations and people from "way back".

Tony
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-08-2011, 08:25 AM
dragoon500ly dragoon500ly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: East Tennessee, USA
Posts: 2,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by helbent4 View Post
RakJpz,

It's not so strange when you read in White Eagle that the primary reason is that there was demand for more adventures in Poland.

"Return to Warsaw" and "White Eagle" essentially go back to the well, reprising "Ruins of Warsaw" and "Black Madonna" are second go-rounds with their respective villains (the Black Baron and Markgraf of Silesia). "Bear's Den" has a new villain, a bad-ass Soviet General, Chelkov.

On one hand there is no real strong connecting narrative arc for the adventures. That is, no one suggested agency or mechanism for involving the players in all three adventures, and they seem more or less independent. There are suggestions as to how involve the CIA and DIA in "Bear's Den" and "White Eagle" or if the players are operating independently. There's almost no set entry for "Return to Warsaw", just suggestions on how they get to Europe or if they would have stayed.

This is kind of weak on one hand, but on the other the GM can tailor the rationale for his particular group, which is probably for the best. In a way, these actually look like great adventures to run now, because many players will have done some or all of the first four Polish adventures (Madonna, Krakow, Vistula and/or Warsaw). It would be nice to revisit situations and people from "way back".

Tony
The best word to describe the Return to Europe...is confused. The lack of any connecting arc was a major drawback IMO. On the other hand, playing the modules as part of the initial story line and then ending with Operation Omega always made more sense.
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-08-2011, 08:54 AM
raketenjagdpanzer's Avatar
raketenjagdpanzer raketenjagdpanzer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragoon500ly View Post
The best word to describe the Return to Europe...is confused. The lack of any connecting arc was a major drawback IMO. On the other hand, playing the modules as part of the initial story line and then ending with Operation Omega always made more sense.
Yeah, I remember leafing through the modules at the FLGS and going "whuh?" at the "Return to Europe" subtitle...but it not having any real discussion on how Europe was being returned to!

Even the title was misleading; it wasn't like CivGov/MilGov was going to go "Oh hey lets put on a REFORGER exercise."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-08-2011, 09:22 AM
Adm.Lee Adm.Lee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,386
Default

I quickly figured out there wasn't a plot-arc, it was mostly stuff "if your group skipped OMEGA." I've never gotten to run them, myself, but they just whetted my appetite for "what happened to Poland after?"

What I've thought about doing is inserting them in pre-Omega timeline-- move the action in "Bear's Den" up to the previous winter, for instance. Or having the protagonists in "White Eagle" be British/French/German agents after the Americans left. Or telling the PCs beforehand about the Markgraf of Silesia, and by the time they get there, find out he's a King, instead.
__________________
My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-08-2011, 04:32 PM
kato13's Avatar
kato13 kato13 is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chicago, Il USA
Posts: 3,724
Send a message via ICQ to kato13
Default

My group did the polish adventures, going home, armies of the night, last submarine series which dropped them off in Europe for the Return to Europe series.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2011, 04:39 PM
James Langham James Langham is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer View Post
Was there an overall plot arc or was it just "Hey, assuming your players didn't go home, here's some stuff that can happen in Europe."

I always thought that given the series of modules' subtitle of "Return to Europe" that it was in a sense for whatever reason US troops being sent back into action in Europe, which considering the state of the world at large a really, really weird thing to do. Even setting aside the logistical problems of moving anything other than a tiny handful of troops and whatever stuff they could carry, back across the Atlantic.
I always saw them as GDW's attempt to put a conclusion on what had happened in the initial series showing the way Europe was going. They let players try and deal once and for all with threats they had held off previously.

To be honest they weren't the way I would have developed them but then again I would have been far more pessimistic in outcome...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-08-2011, 04:48 PM
pmulcahy11b's Avatar
pmulcahy11b pmulcahy11b is offline
The Stat Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,350
Default

It seemed to me to be "Do it again, but in v2 with a little more detail."
__________________
I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-08-2011, 05:22 PM
Raellus's Avatar
Raellus Raellus is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Southern AZ
Posts: 4,301
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
It seemed to me to be "Do it again, but in v2 with a little more detail."
Exactly. They were essentially dressed up reissues of the original Poland modules for the "new" v2.0 edition of T2K.
__________________
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-09-2011, 12:15 AM
Abbott Shaull Abbott Shaull is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Eastern U.P. on the edge of Civilization.
Posts: 1,086
Default

I see them as attempt to rewrite certain parts as they upgraded to v2. On the other hand, one could play these modules in almost any order with a creative GM. Especially if the group didn't go through the Going Home and it Operation Omega, or if the Operation was delayed like year or two.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-09-2011, 12:39 PM
raketenjagdpanzer's Avatar
raketenjagdpanzer raketenjagdpanzer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,261
Default

Would any of you guys see a feasibility to "Okay, boys, we've tidied up at home, secured the Mexican border, sent those Cubans and Sovs packing, time to return the favor in Europe for the big win"

I can't, I mean, not terribly realistically so, but what are y'all's thoughts?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.