Soviet medium mortars in T2K

[schnickelfritz]

I must admit that I don't feel that Soviet industry would continue to be able to or want to produce the complicated 82mm 2B9 Vasilek automortar after the TDM.

It seems like that the resonable solution to maintain some production with limited resources would be to use the WW2 82mm PM-37 design, a simple, conventional mortar.

Any thoughts?

-Dave

[Panther Al]

To be quite honest, if they was going to revert to any basic simple tube morts, I think they would focus on the 120. The only advantage the 82 has over a 120 is that it isn't as heavy, but as armies worldwide have discovered, its not that big an advantage to keep it in heavy use and production. The 2B9 has another advantage that really makes it stand out, as everyone knows, its mortar, its an automatic cannon, and it even sings dixie! (OK, maybe not the last) And yet, its still lighter than a 120. The dang thing is so good, that for a while you could look on SATS (An US Army Training Program that does all sorts of cool things) and order a mounting kit for it so you can slap it on your HMMWV.


Yes, We had a mounting for it.

But to go back to your question, it would depend, if there was any manufacturing ability other than at a most basic level, they would stick to the 2B9, if not, they would go in my mind to the 120 tube.

[HorseSoldier]

120's are real nice until you're foot slogging infantry and have to carry one and the ammo for it. At which point it ceases to be a company fire support asset immediately. The 8cm-ish mortar fell out of favor as more and more mechanization entered the equation. With less and less mechanization in the equation in T2K the 81s and 82s will make a comeback, particularly when you also figure in that that it takes less explosive, metal, and such to make ammo for one of them than for a 120 or 4.2" mortar.

I personally see the standard 82mm making a comeback -- for the above reasons and because they'll be a lot more forgiving of poor quality control than a Vasilek. I'd also expect that a lot of Soviet units that saw time on the Chinese front might have acquired captured Chinese 82mm mortars and put them to use here and there.

(But then I always like to confuse PCs with odd bits of Chinese kit that Russian and other WP veterans had hauled back from the Eastern Front . . .)

[Legbreaker]

Don't forget though that there's likely to be a lot of pre-war Vasilek's floating about and that there may not be a pressing need to make more tubes. A unit may be able to make do with the tubes they already have, due to their reduced manpower as the war grinds on. Of course that doesn't account for tubes captured by enemy action, destroyed when the unit is nuked, etc...
Wear and tear may also be a factor, but I doubt it's going to be as influential as the others.

[schnickelfritz]

What I am thinking of are Mobilization only and Cat 3 divisions, like the 124th MRD.

The 12.0cm PM-38 heavy mortar is as basic as it gets, while still being somewhat mobile. This piece set the pattern for basic, effective heavy mortars and was loved so much by the Germans that they used it as the pattern for the 12.0cm SGrW 42 and captured every one they could get.

The design was improved with the 12.0cm PM-43 and later 12.0cm 2B11, all being lighter versions of the same configuration.

I know a fellow with a wartime 8.0cm GrW 34 and carrying it while broken down is a chore, much less enough ammo to do any real effect.

Make that double or triple for a heavy mortar. As it is, the 12.0cm Soviet mortars do not really disassemble except for maintenance, the two wheeled carriage is permanently attached.

I would think that the 12.0cm models would be hooked to either a horse draw caisson of some type or pulled behind any truck large enough to pull it and carry a useful ammo load. At 70 pounds a case of 2 rounds, that's up to the GM to set, I think. I would assume you'd use a Ural 375 or similar vehicle whenever available.

A 12.0cm mortar seems to be the standard artillery piece in the year 2000 T2K setting for most pact usint of regimental size and up.

As far as the medium mortars go, I would assume there would be legions of WW2 era 82mm versions gathering dust in warehouses for this type of situation.

It's my impression that the Soviets/Russians NEVER throw useful weapons away. It's my understanding that they had warehouses of captured, arsenal serviced, preserved ex-Wehrmacht small arms until the mid-1990's. My guess is that they still do, even after selling a ton of that stuff off.

Thanks-
Dave

[Panther Al]

Hrm. Alright, I can see where a medium in the range of 82mm can be rather useful, the way I was looking at it, is regardless of the size, more often than not the mort and its ammo will be on a cart of some sort, if thats the case, my thinking was why not use the big one, not the medium?