*Post*-TDM armor production.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

What, on any level, would occur?

I'm guessing little to none, and the "little" would constitute more "building" technicals (clearing out local dealerships of H2s and H3s and hauling 'em down to whatever passes in the state as an armory for repair/stripping and arming) and cobbling together vehicles out of what was left over of kits or Anniston-bound repair cases.

Your thoughts, all?

[Abbott Shaull]

I think whatever production factories that weren't wiped out and still had parts would continue for the time being to product until they either ran out of parts, which under the circumstances wouldn't take long. As you get further from TDM, even the refits would stop due to cost/lack of getting vehicle to depot to repairs and spare parts.

[Legbreaker]

I agree. Once the ready supply of materials is exhausted, the only "production" carried out would involve stripping damaged vehicles and fixing up others or cobbling together makeshift substitutes.

[Arrissen]

There must be places/ countries in the world largely unaffected by the war who make AFV's besides France and Mexico (for a time), any thoughts?

[HorseSoldier]

Well besides France, Japan survives largely intact and has domestic production for their more or less Leo 2 knock off and other AFVs. I see them being movers and shakers all over the Pacific trying to keep themselves afloat in terns of fuel, food and other essentials but suspect they'd switch their production over to some cheaper light tank -- they mostly need fire support for COIN sort of stuff and holding key facilities that is fairly easy to ship and cheap to keep running.

[Legbreaker]

Of course Japan does have that pesky constitutional issue with not sending military outside their own boundaries. They <i>may</i> be able to produce a few vehicles, but only provided they can get the raw materials from elsewhere, and EMP hasn't fried their energy production capabilities as it does elsewhere on the planet.

Note also that nukes were first used relatively close to Japan in China many months before continental US felt their heat, and continued to be used for quite some time.

[rcaf_777]

I looked at TACOM (Tank-automotive and Armaments Command) and I would thinks that most of it's factories would be intact since the are away from major centers or places that nukes fell, they could also some materials or parts on hand I mean are looters going to try and haul a tank tranmission or oil and gas on the site? given the sitution in Twilight I woud'nt be supprised if the workforce is nearby the plants formed into some sort of State Guard or Milita unit.

Here are TACOM Major Plants

Warren, MI
Red River, TX
Rock Island, IL
Anniston, AL
Watervliet, NY
Sierra, CA

[Legbreaker]

The list of targets in the book only shows the larger nuke sites. Valuable strategic targets such as these would almost HAVE to have been attacked, and probably by something that wouldn't be overkill.
Leaving them intact is just plain incomprehensible.

[schnickelfritz]

I would agree that the TACOM sites, especially the Watervliet arsenal (manufacturer of cannon barrels) would be on the hit list. However, it is also entirely possible that those responsible for making that call were incapacitated, had enough of the destruction, or the delivery devices were destroyed. The ICBM's may have been hit in silo, gone off course, or the SLBM's tasked with their destruction may be sitting in a debris field beyond crush depth. I believe the Soviets/Russians had problems with some of their solid fuel engines (SS-24, some SS-25, some SLBM), so you could have had misfires or duds.

With that said, it's your game to run as you like. If you want your game's "devastation setting" to be "at 11", wipe these sites out too.

I look at it that if the canon material doesn't say it's gone, it ain't gone. It may not be functional (lack of materials, personnel, or power), but it isn't irradiated debris either. I point to "Lima Incident" in Challenge Magazine as an example.

My $.05

-Dave

[Legbreaker]

It's worth noting the books only detail those nuclear targets which received 250 kilotonnes or more. This essentially rules out almost every sub launched missile and possibly even aircraft delivered weapons as well.

So it's very possible, even probable that what is shown on the maps and in the books is just a small percentage of actual strikes.

[schnickelfritz]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

It's worth noting the books only detail those nuclear targets which received 250 kilotonnes or more. This essentially rules out almost every sub launched missile and possibly even aircraft delivered weapons as well.

So it's very possible, even probable that what is shown on the maps and in the books is just a small percentage of actual strikes.

I agree that it seems against basic military common sense not to attack the TACOM sites. They most likely were on the target list. Unfortunately, their destruction or survival was never discussed except for the Lima Tank Plant in Challenge Magazine, which survived due to a near miss.

My argument is that by the post-TDM period, the delivery methods may have been destroyed, the number of warheads may have dropped due to losses necessitating their targeting having been changed, or that those in the USSR giving the word may have either had tired of the destruction or been incapacitated themselves, all through a variety of ways.

It could be as simple as a Frigate in the Gulf making a lucky discovery of a SLCM carrying Victor III with the weapons to neutralize Anniston (and/or Rock Island) and putting it on the bottom with a pair of Mark 48's in a chance encounter.

My point is that in the canon material, except for Lima, it isn't stated either way, on the hit lists or in any narrative material that I've ever seen, and I remember ordering Howling Wilderness new from the local comic shop....and being rather disappointed with what I got. Does it really imbalance your average T2K campaign to have them partially/completely intact? I really can't see how. Even if intact, the federal covernment won't have the energy, raw materials, or bodies to run the plants for years to come. They will, however, be rather instrumental in rebuilding the US military.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

Here are TACOM Major Plants

Warren, MI
Red River, TX
Rock Island, IL
Anniston, AL
Watervliet, NY
Sierra, CA

If I recall correctly someone did some homebrew stuff on Anniston years ago...from what I remember it was a pretty good write up. It might still be on the net somewhere, but if it is my google fu isn't up to finding it....

[Rockwolf66]

Has anyone else read up on the Armed and Armored Pickup trucks that Los Zetas are useing down in Mexico's drug wars?

Los Monsturos or something like that the news is calling them. The lattest one found is a modified Ford Pickup that can get up to 70mph and is resistant to most mexican small arms. Previous one found could get up to 40 and I've seen a 3rd that looked like a modified Garbage truck or some other vehicle of that size.

At one time I though it was overkill that the El Paso PD had a SAW in it's SWAT inventory...Now I hope they have a Ma Duce that they can fit onto a Bearcat.