Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

[natehale1971]

With the development of UAVs having started during the 1980s (well, acutally earlier than that... the Soviets had alot of Recon Drones back in the 1950s and 1960s... and the Kregismarine had television guided rocket bombs back during WW2) what UAVs would have been used during the Twilight War?

During Desert Strom UAVs were still new and being used (and actually had some Iraqis surrendering to UAVs) in combat for the first time in modern history.

What UAVs would have been developed and used during the cannon Twilight War...

[Panther Al]

Yes.... and no.

Yes, they would exist, and be used. Especially in the first year or so. But none of them would be what people think of as UAV's these days: Serving for the most part as unmanned forward observers for artillery more than anything else.

The idea of Predators, and Global Hawks, as well as other advanced recon platforms, No. Tech wasn't *quite* there - at least in any significant numbers. I would imagine there was a few of the more advanced out there, but only a few.


Of course, this is a matter of opinion: For them to exist in the TW2K timeline, they would have to be in service no later than 97 - figuring the year or two buildup would push the arrival of the 96 and 97 era designs to operational status before the beginning of the war.

[Schone23666]

I'm pretty sure the Global Hawk UAV was around during the time. DOD and DARPA were futzing with several different UAV designs during the 90's, I believe Paul Mulcahy has a section on UAV's that might have been used during the Twilight War.

As AvGas becomes more scarce, I think UAV's might become more popular, particularly smaller lighter ones that is, that could run on electric or alcohol fueled motors. Also, I don't think it would be unrealistic to jury rig various weapons (within reason, of course) onto these UAV's, like they did with earlier versions of the Predator that were outfitted with two Hellfire missiles before they came out with the more heavily armed UAV's like they have now such as the Reaper drone. Even then, if it's only carrying cameras, that will still be a huge boost as real time reconnaissance on any battlefield is critical, especially if you have reduced recon assets to work with.

Then again, a lot of this IMO will slightly depend on what timeline your particular T2K scenario takes place in, as I know there's a few alternate timelines out there. There is a T2k module called "Airlords of the Ozarks" that dealt with New America that I have on PDF, it talks about dirigibles and 1-man light aircraft that consisted of a glider, frame and motor (forgot the damn name) that were used, if these were to also be unmanned, espeically with the dirigible equipped with cameras and a plethora of weapons, THAT would be admittedly VERY cool.

[atiff]

Originally Posted by Schone23666

1-man light aircraft that consisted of a glider, frame and motor (forgot the damn name)

A microlight.

[Mohoender]

I have to say that I didn"'t know anything on UAV and therefore I checked rapidly. The least I can say is that I have been surprised as the answer is yes they will be around no doubt, at least until 1997-1998 and why not 2000. What might not be possible would be surgical strike. However, by 2000, I could very well imagine having a few still in operation and fitted with free falling grenades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...erial_vehicles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...erial_vehicles

[atiff]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

However, by 2000, I could very well imagine having a few still in operation and fitted with free falling grenades.

Before you posted this, I had visions of normal (hobby) remote controled planes or helicopters dropping grenades (held in some kind of trap that is released with a switch signal), or even as a crude 'guided missile'. Not long ranged, but might be effective as 'poor man's air power' by 2000.

Andrew

[ArmySGT.]

So interesting tidbits in the history section of this WIKI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAV

I know it is a WIKI and I am not going to stake anything on it as being 100% accurate.

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

During Desert Strom UAVs were still new and being used (and actually had some Iraqis surrendering to UAVs) in combat for the first time in modern history.

IIRC, the Israelis were the developers of the Pioneer UAV system used by the U.S.N. in GW1. The Israelis used them in '82 as decoys to fool Syrian SAM sites in Lebanon into turning on their radars so that F-4 and F-16 Wild Weasels could past them with Shrikes, HARMs, and cluster bombs.

I agree with Mousekill on every point. I might even take it a step further.

I think UAVs would be the most common aircraft in most hot zones during the later years of the Twilight War. Some of the earlier types of prop-driven UAVs are essentially large model aircraft and, although I'm no aircraft mechanic, it seems to me that they would be a lot easier to keep fueled and running than any manned aircraft. I don't think you'd see any hunter-killer types like the modern Predator, but small recon drones wouldn't be too uncommon over T2K battlefields.

In Fusilier's excellent T2K PbP, the protagonists recently (a few weeks ago, IRL) encountered some kind of UAV circling the ruins of Czestachowa (we still haven't figured out who was operating it or why). I thought the episode was a stroke of genius and immediately kicked myself for not thinking of such an encounter in my own campaign.

[DigTw0Grav3s]

Originally Posted by Raellus

..In Fusilier's excellent T2K PbP, the protagonists recently..

Link? Would love to read it.

[Canadian Army]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

With the development of UAVs having started during the 1980s (well, acutally earlier than that... the Soviets had alot of Recon Drones back in the 1950s and 1960s... and the Kregismarine had television guided rocket bombs back during WW2) what UAVs would have been used during the Twilight War?

Here is a link to the UAV section of Paul's site: http://www.pmulcahy.com/uavs/uavs.html

It has the info you are looking for.

[WallShadow]

Anybody thought about using kites? The US (Army) Weather Service did in the turn of the 20th century. Build a big enough kite and you might even be able to lift a (brave) man up for observation purposes.

[Legbreaker]

Hang gliders and winch launched gliders could also be useful for recon, although they tend to need a pilot to avoid crashing...

[WallShadow]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Hang gliders and winch launched gliders could also be useful for recon, although they tend to need a pilot to avoid crashing...

Are you sure you don't mean _delay_ crashing?
Sail planes with proper cammy would be a great,l really stealthy recon asset--just don't get noticed, don't get fired at, and especially don't get hit.
How about a towed steerable parachute connected to its tow vehicle by a releasable cable. You'd just need a sufficiently straight stretch of road to build up speed and height.
If a winch itself is too slow, why not a drop-weight catapult, using the winch to hoist the counterweight back up again?

[Mousekill]

UAVs, even the smaller ones, aren't just planes, they are a "system". This includes the control terminals/shelters, launchers, landing gear and the air vehicle. In most cases, the system won't work if any of these components are missing.

It would be necessary to decide how much the system should be broken into its components. For example, the RQ7 Shadow has a static line which is basically two lines strung between two drum brakes, and it has anothe gizmo that is set up beside the landing strip that tracks and guides the plane in to land. Would each piece need to be a distinct gizmo in the game or could they be combined into a more generic landing system?

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by Canadian Army

Here is a link to the UAV section of Paul's site: http://www.pmulcahy.com/uavs/uavs.html

It has the info you are looking for.

Sorry to admit it, but a lot of that page is out of date, greatly so in some places, and update time for UAVs is a long way off. But it will give you a start point.

[Matt Wiser]

So what was that Soviet UAV picked up over Western Europe in the 1970s that was mistaken for a MiG-25R recon Foxbat? Yastreb is the name I heard, IIRC.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

So what was that Soviet UAV picked up over Western Europe in the 1970s that was mistaken for a MiG-25R recon Foxbat? Yastreb is the name I heard, IIRC.

Yastreb would be correct, it's Russian for hawk or falcon if I remember right.
It was the Tupolev Tu-123, introduced into service in the mid-1960s and based in the Western military districts.
I'm at work at the moment so unfortunately there's only a few pages on the Tu-123 I can access but there's a number of websites and even YouTube videos if you do a search for Tu-123.
As a drone, it's a massive aircraft, have a look at the third website listed below for some pics of it on it's carrier truck.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-123
http://www.kamov.net/russian-aircraft/tupolev-tu-123/
http://kevsaviationpics.blogspot.com...3-yastreb.html