Semi-OT:Ammo load

[copeab]

I'm aware that in T2K, the answer to "How much ammo dies a soldier carry?" is "How much can he find?"

I'm running a Weird WWII campaign where the PCs are members of an OSS team, so these are not line infantry (their missions are more akin to special ops raids or patrols).

Two of the players have a fairly good grasp of ammo loads. Two, however, either try to carry too little or too much. So I was thinking of coming up with guidelines such as:

For a "standard" mission, figure 100 rounds per automatic weapon, 50 rounds per semiautomatic weapon and three magazines per pistol. 2-3 grenades (fragmentation, concussion, smoke) may also be carried.

For a 'long term' mission, double those numbers.

FWIW. weapons commonly used by the team include the BAR, silenced Sten (normally only fired semiauto to preserve the silencer), M-1 Garand, M-1 carbine and Atlantean "AK-47"*. Three PCs carry Browning HPs and one a custom Colt M-1911A1. One of those (the ex-mafia hitman) with a Browning also carries a silenced Mosin-nagant revolver for "special occasions". At times they have had a flamethrower or light mortar. It's a rare mission where they don't carry at least one satchel charge

Common longarms are one BAR, two Garands and one M-1 carbine (the Shinto priest usually doesn't carry anything heavier than the carbine).

Does this sound like too much or too little ammo for troops who aren't expected to engage in "normal" combat?

* This ws a failed attempt by the Atlanteans to provide the Allies with an automatic weapon that quickly and easily built by the Allies. However it was rejected as being too crude, inaccurate and underpowered (compared tot he Garand and Lee-Enfield). To simplify ammo supply (and further damn the weapon to the military), it used the .30-30 round (which is actually a bit more powerful than the 7.62x39mm). About half were kept by the OSS and Marines, while the rest were covertly dumped on the defeated Russians ...

[dragoon500ly]

Well, IRL the BAR Gunner's belt had six pouches, each holding two 20-round mags, the asst BAR gunner would carry a bandoleer with six additional 20-round mags.

The cartridge belt would hold ten 8-round clips for his M-1, normal issue was for two bandoleers, each holding six t-round clips.

Pistol would be issued with three 7-round magazines.

Carbines would be issued three 15-round magazines (and 90 loose rounds)

SMGs would be issued three ways; early thompson would be two five-mag pouches, each holding a 20-round magazine; late thompson would be two three-mag pouches, each holding a 30-round magazine (Rangers, paratroopers, Marine Raiders would get one or two 50-rounds drums but this would be 1942-43 only). Late war M-3 would either get the same two three-mag pouches, each holding a 30-round magazine or a ammo pouch that held all six 30-round magazines. It would not be unusual for a SMG user to have a box or two of .45 to top off magazines (50-100 rounds).

If you kick it and issue a M-1919A6, then the three man crew would carry three 250-round belts and each member of the squad would carry another can with a 250-round belt. Not only was this used with the MG, but rounds could be stripped from the belts and M-1 clips reloaded.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

Well, IRL the BAR Gunner's belt had six pouches, each holding two 20-round mags, the asst BAR gunner would carry a bandoleer with six additional 20-round mags.

As there are only four PCs and usually no more than two NPCs (one of which carries a field radio and the second it the mechanic/copilot of their plane), there is normally no assistant BAR gunner, although the carbine-carrying priest could carry extra ammo for it if he's not carrying explosives (I think he has the best Demolitions in the group).

Pistol would be issued with three 7-round magazines.

I might make it four mags for the guys with Brownings, as each has one mag of silver bullets which would be wasted on most targets.

Carbines would be issued three 15-round magazines (and 90 loose rounds)

The loose ammo would probably be in magazines in this case.

If you kick it and issue a M-1919A6, then the three man crew would carry three 250-round belts and each member of the squad would carry another can with a 250-round belt. Not only was this used with the MG, but rounds could be stripped from the belts and M-1 clips reloaded.

Unless the team gets additional troops assigned to them as "security" they are not likely to have a tripod-mounted weapon. The mortar they had was the Italian 45mm Brixia, which could be carried (35 lbs) and operated by one man, and they abandoned it when they had to make a hasty getaway once. They are looking to replace it with the 60mm M-19 mortar (22 lbs with sling and baseplate).

They do have a bit of an armory, which they keep in their Grumman goose most of the time.

[Mahatatain]

One guide I always found interesting comes from an old RPG set in Vietnam called "The Revised Recon" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recon_%...laying_game%29

In that (on pages 45 & 46 if you get hold of a copy) they give an example of the gear carried by a new arrival in Vietnam and what he's carrying six months later. It's an RPG so I've no idea of the level of accuracy but he goes from carrying 4 spare mags for his M16 to carrying 16 (and ditching a lot of other crap as well).

I think however that the key question for your game, and the amount of ammo the characters are carrying around, is how frequently they think that they're going to be resupplied? If they're not going to be in action for very long and can expect an extraction fairly quickly then they don't need to carry as much ammo. If they know that they're going to be on the ground with multiple firefights then they know they need to carry more.

However as a GM I'd give them some advice and then let them decide and see what happens, quite possibly putting them in longer range firefights that use up more ammo, particularly if there was a PC not carrying enough ammo and I wanted to make a point. Obviously should anyone start running short of ammo there is always the option of switching to a captured weapon.

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by copeab

As there are only four PCs and usually no more than two NPCs (one of which carries a field radio and the second it the mechanic/copilot of their plane), there is normally no assistant BAR gunner, although the carbine-carrying priest could carry extra ammo for it if he's not carrying explosives (I think he has the best Demolitions in the group).

I included the BAR bandoleer as an easy means of providing six extra mags. A US Squad would often have 3-4 men carrying this.

The loose ammo would probably be in magazines in this case

Evil grin....the M-1 Carbine was only issued with 3 mags....even paratroopers and Rangers....

Unless the team gets additional troops assigned to them as "security" they are not likely to have a tripod-mounted weapon. The mortar they had was the Italian 45mm Brixia, which could be carried (35 lbs) and operated by one man, and they abandoned it when they had to make a hasty getaway once. They are looking to replace it with the 60mm M-19 mortar (22 lbs with sling and baseplate).

The M1919A6 was the 1944/45 US entry into the light machine gun contest. It really was a M-1919A4 (the tripod-mounted version), fitted with a fixed bipod, a carrying handle, a buttstock and a modified trigger/firing grip. It could be operated by one person, but was better used with a loader.

[Legbreaker]

In more recent times an L1A1 SLR was issued as a base load three 20 round mags. An M16 ten 20 round mags and M60 600 rounds of link. That's just base load... If combat was expected then ammo would be however much can be carried.

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

In more recent times an L1A1 SLR was issued as a base load three 20 round mags.

Which army was that in? It seems scarily low!

[dragoon500ly]

and here is a silenced Sten...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SKkKlWWmEbM

[dragoon500ly]

and, of course, the Bren...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PHTrBwh15HM

[copeab]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

and, of course, the Bren...

FWIW, Belgium made a version of the BAR (in 7.65mm) with a pistol grip and quick-change barrel (although it retained the 20 round agazine).

The Swedish version (in 6.5mm) also had a pistol grip and, later, a quick-change barrel.

[Mahatatain]

Originally Posted by dragoon500ly

and here is a silenced Sten...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SKkKlWWmEbM

OK - that's quieter than an non silenced Sten but it's hardly "quiet"! <G>

[dragoon500ly]

Originally Posted by Mahatatain

OK - that's quieter than an non silenced Sten but it's hardly "quiet"! <G>

True...but you don't really notice the difference until you see an unsilenced Sten firing.

But based on what I've seen so far, I'd rather use the De Lisle and the Welrod, they are impressive in their near silence....