War Souvenirs in the T2KU

[Raellus]

I caught a few minutes of the last episode of Band of Brothers on the telly yesterday and it got me thinking about the time-honored tradition of souvenir hunting on the battlefield. Today I caught a bit on an old Pawn Stars where a man brought some German bayonets his father had scrounged up in WWII into the shop. I hadn't heard this before but the expert they brought in to appraise the items shared a quote that went something like this: "The British fight for honor, the French fight for glory, and the Americans fight for souvenirs." He also said G.I.s would sometimes just write their address on a helmet, slap some stamps on it, and mail it back to the States without properly wrapping/packaging it! My own grandfather "liberated" a Kriegsmarine dagger, a Luger pistol, and a Japanese officer's sword during his USN service in WWII (unfortunately for me, my cousin got it all when the Captain died). I'm rambling. On to the question!

Would true souvenir hunting occur late in the Twilight War? I kind of don't see the point. Anything worth scavenging would most likely be put to use. And what are the chances of getting war booty back home to show it off? Would there be a market among the REMFs in the rear areas for souvenirs? Would there be that many REMFs c. 2000? I doubt it. If there's no realistic prospect or likelihood of mailing it home, getting back home to show it off to family (all your friends would likely have equal access to war souvenirs) or selling it, what's the point? I'm sure some folks would still pick up souvenirs just for the heck of it but I'm thinking that the drive to loot for profit or just for looting sake would not be very powerful in the T2KU. Looting would be widespread, but it would be of a much more practical nature.

What are your thoughts on the matter of souvenir hunting in the Twilight World?

[Legbreaker]

Grabbing items just for show wouldn't have much place late in the war. I'd think once the second half of 1997 came around, almost all souvenir hunting would stop dead in preference to scrounging for survival.

On the mail topic, back when I was in the infantry, we were told it didn't matter what you wrote on or how something was packaged - if it had an address on it, it could be mailed. Of course it's extremely unlikely dangerous items would be allowed, and it's also quite likely that some items would go "missing" enroute.

[weswood]

My father (and his squad) ambushed an NVA command element that had wandered off by itself. One of them was carrying an engraved pistol, I don't remember what kind, maybe a Tokarav... Pop decided he'd keep that but screwed up reporting 7 bodies and only 6 weapons. He almost got in a lot of trouble over it, then a couple weeks later his CO gave the pistol to some visiting VIP in a big ceremony.

I don't think souvenir hunting would last long. Battlefield scrounging for useful items, yeah, sure. But souvenirs are basically to take home to show off to people who weren't there and didn't do that. If you don't know if you'll make it home, and not sure if home is even there, and you're packing everything you own in your pack or vehicle you'll want to use space/weight for useful things.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

My own grandfather "liberated" a Kriegsmarine dagger, a Luger pistol, and a Japanese officer's sword during his USN service in WWII (unfortunately for me, my cousin got it all when the Captain died).

I can relate to that. My father's father was a captain in the New Zealand infantry, he fought in North Africa during WWII. My dad and I are the last of his descendants that bear his surname, but I haven't ended up with any of his military stuff. My eldest cousins grabbed it all when he died (I'm a continent and a sea away from them).

[Targan]

"Souvenir hunting" implies keeping items for yourself as keepsakes for after the war and I agree it wouldn't be on the same scale as in previous wars, given that in many cases you can only keep what you can carry. Small items of great significance to individuals might be kept (I know they were in my last campaign by various player characters).

Many items might be held onto with the intention of being kept but end up as trade items. So there would be some gray areas. And some things that were more luxury items than strictly useful would still be highly tradeable. No matter how f*cked up the world has become, there's always going to be some people richer (relatively speaking) than others, who are willing to trade for items for status or greed.

[Mahatatain]

I think that there are several other factors that haven't been mentioned that you need to consider with regards to souvenir hunting.

The ability of the troops to transport souvenirs:
- If you're still vehicle mobile then that enemy helmet you picked up as a souvenir is fairly easy to transport around.
- If you're foot mobile then lugging around a souvenir like a helmet is weight that you can do without!

Weight of the souvenir:
- If the souvenir is something small, like the unit and rank insignia taken from an enemy officer, then that's a lot more likely to be kept rather than being ditched because of the problems of carrying it around.

Psychological importance of taking the souvenir home:
- Some soldiers might regard keeping hold of some souvenirs as important because it's a symbol of their intention to eventually return home. For example a character might have something like an enemy helmet or insignia as a present for their kid brother and so by keeping it they retain their belief that they will one day make it home and give it to their kid brother. Intentionally ditching the item therefore possibly means that they don't believe that they will ever get home and/or that they now believe that their kid brother isn't alive any more. People place a strange level of importance on particular items all of the time!

[Ironside]

Just don't pick up souvenirs that glow in the dark

[mikeo80]

Originally Posted by Targan

Many items might be held onto with the intention of being kept but end up as trade items. So there would be some gray areas. And some things that were more luxury items than strictly useful would still be highly tradeable. No matter how f*cked up the world has become, there's always going to be some people richer (relatively speaking) than others, who are willing to trade for items for status or greed.

I agree with Targan's analysis. I also think that if you are trying to buy your way into Krakow or any of the other "free cities" a high quality souvenir MIGHT just be that last little bit you need ot get in.

My $0.02

Mike

[headquarters]

I guess if I had security, food,shelter and some social contact all squared away - in essence being a well set up local strongman or something - the prospect of hanging a real Monèt or Picasso or having Khaddafis personal engraved gold plated hand gun to show off would be interesting.

As for souvenirs.. weapons and gear that is useable would probably be used or traded as useable gear.