In MY Twilight:2000...what are your variants or canon-breaks?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I've talked about my T2k options I'd have in my T2k game both globally and locally; what are yours?

One I've decided I'll put in is that stateside the US still has many, many operational AFVs - a lot of them museum pulls so it's not uncommon to see a Sherman providing overwatch for an armored infantry company that moves around in an M113 and M56, for example. (Gas/alcohol to move them is another matter...)

[Olefin]

In mine I have the US pulling Sheridans out of storage for use in light infantry and MP divisions as well as raiding museums and private collections for older vehicles like Shermans that are still operable. Also have the M8 AGS going into service in early 1997 and being issued to a few divisions before production stopped after the nuclear exchange.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Olefin

as well as raiding museums and private collections for older vehicles like Shermans that are still operable.

This.

There's about 1500 usable armored vehicles in the CONUS in my T2k timeline, that's about 3 armored divisions worth...but they're scattered in kampfgruppes all across the US except in the southwest, where they tend to be concentrated in pre-TDM brigade-strength units for fighting the Mexicans and Division Cuba forces. Not all of these are "main battle" tanks, and not all of the main battle tanks are approaching modern - the majority are armored infantry fighting vehicles going all the way back to the M3 halftrack, and including armored humvees and armored cars, some M56 APCs, and so forth. Of the tanks, few M1s of any stripe are out there although there are some, a rare few (4-5?) S120/M60-2000s. Most are M60A3s or A4s, M48A5s, with more than a few "appropriated" M4s, M41s, etc (about 300 or so from various armor museums, private collectors, that sort of thing). Plus more than a few M551s.

The real impact these have isn't on the battlefield, it's on the local areas they're near: either CIVGOV or MILGOV, when an armored team sets up shop near your town it can be a real curse: grease, oil, and just about any other POL products are "bought" up - usually with nearly worthless scrip or pre-war dollars. But at the same time the presence of an M3 and an improvised armored car bristling with machine-guns and 30-40 troops and their light-to-medium weapons to boot can mean the difference between being forcibly annexed by New American marauders and continuing to live a relatively peaceful existence.

Hmm, I may just have a story/supplement in there somewhere...

[Olefin]

I completely agree with you about their impact. Its one of the things that the GDW modules completly missed and one of their biggest failings. Which is why I am about to go out on a limb and follow Chico with a non-canon timeline addressing stuff like that.

Look at New America. While they are a lot better armed than the average civilian or police force a few Shermans or Sheridans would be a lot more than they could handle in most places.

And while they couldnt stand up to real MBT's unless you are on the Mexican front you wont be seeing MBT's to fight. At best you might be up against an armored car or truck armed with machine guns.

And if the non-canon Mexican Army sourcebook I saw a few weeks ago is indicative of what Mexico has then a Sheridan could still be very effective against them.

[boogiedowndonovan]

off the top of my head

units left out of the vehicle guides/orbats, for example US 177th armored, 193rd Infantry, Berlin Brigade, 173rd infantry, British and German Territorials, 3rd Netherlands Marine Corps battalion stationed on Aruba, etc, etc

with the draft reinstated, more units being formed

Operation Omega: I never bought into "US leaves ALL heavy equipment behind" since Going Home says that there is plent of room for everyone (I think, can't remember dont have it in front of me)

Belgium: Belgians don't roll over for the French, since over 50% of Belgians speak a variation of Dutch. Instead they honor their NATO commitments, send Paracommando Regt. to Norway, I corps to Germany (perhaps like the Dutch and Danes) then everything goes to crap after the nukes, French invade Belgium and establish Dead Zone, Belgian armed forces disintegrate, breaking into French speaking groups and Dutch speaking groups and head for home.

[Olefin]

I agree for sure with the Belgians - the ones who dont speak French have no love for them at all - so where is that half of Belguim seceding and a civil war breaks out in Belguim or fighting the incoming French forces?

[pmulcahy11b]

Definitely a deal-breaker: a unit composed entirely of Elmer Fudd clones!

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

Operation Omega: I never bought into "US leaves ALL heavy equipment behind" since Going Home says that there is plent of room for everyone (I think, can't remember dont have it in front of me)

I always though that Omega would be two or three runs, and with the US mainland invaded on two fronts, I can't see the US leaving any armour behind. I invsion a chop shop operation that allow for equipement to disassembyed and sent home, I also see resource recovery teams being sent out to find items needed, Ammo, POL, Salvage, Food ect, both in europe and the US

[schnickelfritz]

I've been working on a narrative that tells a tale where the US 5th ID (M) isn't completely destroyed.

I think it's relatively plausable, but it is certainly a departure from canon...and I like it.

The fact that I sense that Leg doesn't is a bit of a bonus, har har.

What I wanted was the ability to create some sort of campaign with units like I see in the RDF sourcebook, and after getting a pdf copy of the Eastern European Sourcebook, it made it easier to tackle.

I also use the M8 Buford AGS instead of the LAV-75. I'm still a bit stuck on what the heck to do with the MPGS-90 from the US Army VG.

I also keep the US 43rd MP Brigade from disintegrating. Colonel Fort dies of stress related natural causes and returning European Theater vets help reassert control and cooperation with the Isolationists.

-Dave