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Old 07-19-2012, 05:25 AM
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kcdusk kcdusk is offline
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Default RL camping and T2K observations

I've just returned from a 5,000+km (3,200+mile) camping holiday. My family travelled in a 4WD and camper trailer. We do it quite often, but this has been our biggest trip. It wasnt just the longest, but also the most remote. 99% of our travel was on corrugated dirt roads in remote regions and through sand hills in the Simpson Desert. And of course, I'm thinking T2K all the way.

So, i jotted down some dot points as we travelled about rough travelling in real life and also T2K observations. I had hoped to write a massive email on my return, but no one ever reads them. So heres my cliff notes.

Packing: most times people dont have enough room and have to leave stuff behind. We're seasoned travellers (we take half as much as we used to)and had more than enough room. I like our car and trailer to be at "75%" capacity so theres room to add stuff along the way (firewood) or if you need to get to something (its always on the bottom) you can move stuff around without too much trouble. Something i found on this trip was after 3 or 4 days we had too much room. Too much room in our fridge, too much room in our food store and even in the back of our car. What was happening was, we were breaking stuff. Milk container in the fridge, fridge latch broke off after bumping around in the ute tray, cordial bottle in the food box. When we left home things were packed "tight". After a few days things were no longer "tight" and also there was more room to move, and with that movement, even small movement, things broke when bouncing around on corrugated roads. Every day you need to repack. We ended up putting my ugg boots in the fridge to cushion milk containers, beer cans etc. Once you've used up some supplies, you need to "dampen" down the available movement or risk breaking gear. T2K: a good store person is a must. And along with "maintenance", it should also include "packing". I'm strongly in favour of a daily roll for random items to be damaged during travel. It mimiks real life, and it really is random what can break.

You cant have enough spares. Most of what we broke were consumable items (liter of milk with a slow leak). Or "annoying" items (fridge latch. The fridge still closed and we could latch one side, but not the other). It really opened up the possibility that 50 cent items could bring you to a halt (blown light fuse, run down torch battery at night). T2K: just as random stuff breaks all the time, it pays to have spares. Its not exciting to list all your spares, but it might suit some. I dont like to list all spares and other carried items. If theres a good scrounger or storeperson in a party, i'll assign a % likelihood to the random item. If a fuse blows for example, a good storeperson is likely to have one (even if not listed), so theres an 85% chance your party has the fuse (roll for effect). If there is no one with good provision management, having that same fuse available might be 50/50.

We had to fill up with diesel in remote communities. While we carried jerry cans (x6) we had to refuel at some point. I'd heard stories of bad diesel, or water in petrol station tanks (rains, condensation). It was a big concern i had if the motor got into trouble so far from anywhere. T2K: bad fuel is a real fear. Is your alcohol still working properly? Did you just trade for good or bad diesel?

Even with a car fridge, food can and does go off. x1,000 in a T2K setting.

Small cuts or splinters are a real pain, and you pick up so many. I'm not a "manual work" kind of guy. But my hands were skun and had splinters from early on. Day 1 its no worries, "We're camping and my hands are dirty!". Day 2 and its "ow, this actually hurts". Day 3 "oh boy, its infected now". T2K: Day 10 "the medic says two of those fingers have to come off".

Personal hygene is real. I had a pair of socks on. That night it was cold and i wore the socks to bed. In the morning (-4c) it was so cold i kept the same socks on during the day, 4 days later the routine hadnt changed. I joked about getting trench foot. At the end of 3 weeks my feet had had clean and dirty socks on for 24 hours a day .... for 3 weeks. T2K: I'm lucky i didnt take my socks off when i got home and have toes rattling around in them.

Travelling on dirt roads for so long really knocked stuff about. The roads were maintained, to a point. In T2K they arent. 100's of kms of corrugated roads shook stuff apart. Everything rubbed and got dirt in it (see random breakage die roll). Even on good roads we were travelling at 80-90kph and then out of no where its "whumph" & you'd speed through a washout or dip in the road, the car bottoms out, its bash-crash type stuff. Quadruplerly so travelling through sandhills where you need speed at the bottom to get over the top, so your travelling faster than you need to.

Simple items can be really important. We have a treg hitch on our camper. Its a square block, with a simple pin that connects it to your car tow bar. If we took the camper off the car to travel during the day, the pin sometimes got left on the rear step of the car .... you forget its there and drive off .... if your lucky the pin drops off the car not far from camp. More likely you've lost the pin. A $5 item, but hard to come by. Without it your really going to struggle to connect your trailer to the car. My wife and i are hyper sensitive to loosing the pin. But twice on the trip we forgot. Bad process, yes. But it happens when your short of time and hurrying. T2K: i expect discipline in T2K to be less than we employed.

We towed a camper trailer through the Simpson Desert. Trailers are not recommended, some people think towing trailers through the sandhills cuts up the track. They also mean your travelling slower and groups can get caught up behind you. I was worried we'd catch some abuse from other travellers. But everyone we came across was really friendly. We had a UHF radio and pulled over if anyone came up behind us or we had people travelling towards us. We got stuck a couple of times, didnt need a recovery but took 2 or 3 attempts to get over some hills. But even cars were doing that. Everyone we met was like "hey, its remote out here, how are you going? Whats the tracks like where you've been" and were more than happy to talk about where they'd been. T2K: not every group is out to get you. People are social creatures. Most people are happy to see others. Some want to take advantage of you. People normally either want your co-operation (no matter how "weak" you may be, they think you are more capable than them) or are after conflict (travelling marouders).

Anyway. For those in Australia we did the Oodnadatta track (Leigh Creek to marla), Ayres rock, Kings canyon, Hermensburg, Palm Valley, through Alice Springs (2 hours to refuel and food), Chambers Pillar, Finke, Dalhousie Springs, across the Simpson ... to Birdsville, down the Birdsville track, Blinman (flinders ranges) and .... then home.
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Old 07-19-2012, 05:59 AM
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Targan Targan is offline
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Great post, KC. Seriously, a really interesting read. I chuckled a few times though because there were quite a few terms used that non-Australians probably wouldn't understand. "Ute", for instance. I love the way you linked back to T2K in the blue sections. Very effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk View Post
Packing: most times people dont have enough room and have to leave stuff behind. We're seasoned travellers (we take half as much as we used to)and had more than enough room. I like our car and trailer to be at "75%" capacity so theres room to add stuff along the way (firewood) or if you need to get to something (its always on the bottom) you can move stuff around without too much trouble. Something i found on this trip was after 3 or 4 days we had too much room. Too much room in our fridge, too much room in our food store and even in the back of our car. What was happening was, we were breaking stuff. Milk container in the fridge, fridge latch broke off after bumping around in the ute tray, cordial bottle in the food box. When we left home things were packed "tight". After a few days things were no longer "tight" and also there was more room to move, and with that movement, even small movement, things broke when bouncing around on corrugated roads. Every day you need to repack. We ended up putting my ugg boots in the fridge to cushion milk containers, beer cans etc. Once you've used up some supplies, you need to "dampen" down the available movement or risk breaking gear. T2K: a good store person is a must. And along with "maintenance", it should also include "packing". I'm strongly in favour of a daily roll for random items to be damaged during travel. It mimiks real life, and it really is random what can break.
Great points. In my Gunmaster T2K I included a Loadmaster skill for exactly this reason. I also had vehicle/equipment failures as a possible random encounter on the tables, and critical failures in a variety of askills and in luck rolls could also result in breakages/breakdowns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk View Post
You cant have enough spares. Most of what we broke were consumable items (liter of milk with a slow leak). Or "annoying" items (fridge latch. The fridge still closed and we could latch one side, but not the other). It really opened up the possibility that 50 cent items could bring you to a halt (blown light fuse, run down torch battery at night). T2K: just as random stuff breaks all the time, it pays to have spares. Its not exciting to list all your spares, but it might suit some. I dont like to list all spares and other carried items. If theres a good scrounger or storeperson in a party, i'll assign a % likelihood to the random item. If a fuse blows for example, a good storeperson is likely to have one (even if not listed), so theres an 85% chance your party has the fuse (roll for effect). If there is no one with good provision management, having that same fuse available might be 50/50.
Agreed, so very true. I made my players keep pretty detailed lists of things like spares. At least as far as my and their knowledge (or my ability to bullshit) extended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk View Post
We had to fill up with diesel in remote communities. While we carried jerry cans (x6) we had to refuel at some point. I'd heard stories of bad diesel, or water in petrol station tanks (rains, condensation). It was a big concern i had if the motor got into trouble so far from anywhere. T2K: bad fuel is a real fear. Is your alcohol still working properly? Did you just trade for good or bad diesel?
Absolutely! What a great way to mess with characters' heads. Is there such a thing as a portable test kit for petroleum type fuels? I know that you can use black powder to "proof" alcohol fuels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk View Post
Small cuts or splinters are a real pain, and you pick up so many. I'm not a "manual work" kind of guy. But my hands were skun and had splinters from early on. Day 1 its no worries, "We're camping and my hands are dirty!". Day 2 and its "ow, this actually hurts". Day 3 "oh boy, its infected now". T2K: Day 10 "the medic says two of those fingers have to come off".
Because of the system on which the system we used, medicine, wounds and healing were pretty detailed in my last campaign. One character actually did die from infected wounds. With his last few breaths he made another PC swear to cutting out his heart once he was dead and burying it in Texas. The other PC carried the heart for ages but never did make it to Texas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk View Post
Personal hygene is real. I had a pair of socks on. That night it was cold and i wore the socks to bed. In the morning (-4c) it was so cold i kept the same socks on during the day, 4 days later the routine hadnt changed. I joked about getting trench foot. At the end of 3 weeks my feet had had clean and dirty socks on for 24 hours a day .... for 3 weeks. T2K: I'm lucky i didnt take my socks off when i got home and have toes rattling around in them.
Towards the end of basic training I didn't take my boots off for more than a few minutes for 5 or 6 days while we were out in the bush. I got gangrene in 2 toes but didn't tell the medics. After the passing out parade I cut out the black, stinking flesh until I hit bright blood. It was a pretty horrible experience. I was pretty sick from the blood poisoning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcdusk View Post
We towed a camper trailer through the Simpson Desert.

[snip]

Anyway. For those in Australia we did the Oodnadatta track (Leigh Creek to marla), Ayres rock, Kings canyon, Hermensburg, Palm Valley, through Alice Springs (2 hours to refuel and food), Chambers Pillar, Finke, Dalhousie Springs, across the Simpson ... to Birdsville, down the Birdsville track, Blinman (flinders ranges) and .... then home.
Man, respect to you and your family. That's some seriously harsh territory. What an amazing trip.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:48 AM
mikeo80 mikeo80 is offline
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A couple of random thoughts and questions:

1) WOW! 5000 KM camping trip! That is really intense. Out of curiosity, how long were you and the family "on the road"?

2) Curiosity again. How many were on the trip?

3) Did you ever think about quiting? (My idea of camping is the local Holiday Inn )

4) How far (on average) did you travel a day?

I for one would enjoy reading more about your trip. Whenever you like, post here or send in a private message.

My $0.02

Mike
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
Adm.Lee Adm.Lee is offline
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Thanks for the insights. As a non-camper, but frequently the family packer, I appreciate the comments, especially the T2k-relations.

Loadmaster: in all of the past games I have refereed, including the current one, I have been the one to go over the PCs' equipment loads, seeing if they could be redistributed between characters or vehicles. If I were a player, I'd be asking to see the others' character sheets for the same reason. I closely watch fuel and food loads, as well as ammo. Perhaps a Scrounge skill roll to turn up the right item, or the average of Scrounge + Mechanic to make something close enough?

I've done this in D&D and other games, too, I'm our group's default treasure collector and wealth-tracker. It's something I sometimes build into my PCs. Again, if it were T2k, I think I'd play a transportation or QM officer.

In my current game, the middle-schoolers playing Marines, there's a way to radically shift their loads that might get them out of trouble right now, but as there are two adults in the game, I don't want to hand them "the right answer" on a plate.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:28 PM
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Fun notes on packing: It's amazing what you can fit in the smallest spaces if you do it right. I was in the Boy Scouts (of America), and we had NYLT (National Youth Leadership Training). I referred to it as 'Boot Camp for Boy Scouts' because it was 110% marching and sweating and marching and then more marching.

But the leader was this grizzled 80 year old guy. We had no idea who he was, and he comes marching out with a backpack a little bit larger than a fanny-pack.

We're sitting there with our large metal framed backpacks, packed with all sorts of gear we figured we needed. He took off his backpack, unpacked everything, and he had a month's supplies of clothes/survival gear/knick-knacks.

Then he made us throw all of our stuff away

Turns out the guy climbed Everest too. Must have been a Highlander or something.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:49 PM
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1. 5,000km over 22 nights. Setting up new camp 17 times.

2. There was 4 of us for the first week, (Me, wifey, 8 year old daughter and 6 year old son). For the second week, my sister inlaw joined us (2 adults + 3 kids (13 months old, 5 and 7). Together we've covered allot of miles, looking for rough tracks, especially sand dunes. We planned the trip for 2 years (we were meant to go last year but they had a baby). So we travelled well together and had done all the prep work as far as making it through the Simpson Desert (1,100 sandhills).

3. We were on holidays! We loved it! Yeah, i thought about quitting though. It was about night 18 and the closer we got to being home, the more i wanted to rush it. The other couple had phone and internet coverage and kept telling us tidbits, while we had no comms to home or the world (& we'd been away a week longer). That made it tough. We also took some damage (more below) that was making life difficult. I didnt want to go back to work, and i knew once back i'd miss being on the road, so i knuckled down and made the most of every day. Slight tangent, day 1 our rear canapy backwindow was hit by a stone and broke into a million pieces of glass through our gear in the back of the ute/truck. I knew i had to put cardboard over the rear glass but never got around to it ... day 1 on a dirt road we took a rock from a passing car and smash, gone. Glass through everything. We fixed it with a $2 tarp we had with us. Wifey wanted to go home right there and then though. I knew i wasnt going anywhere but away from home on day 1. We stuck with it, cleaned it up, it made access to all our gear (fridge and food box for example) more difficult and by day 20 we were sick of it.

4. The first 2 days away we travelled big kms. 500kms each day (mostly on dirt). Some days were only 350km on dirt, but that still meant pack up (2 hours for everyone to get up, dressed, breakfast and break camp) then about 5-6 hours driving time before setting up camp again that night. Through the Simpson Desert we were doing 70-120km per day. The best days were 200-250km per day because they were a few hours drive then enjoy the rest of the day. We had 3 places we stayed multiple nights.

I am writing a more complete trip report for other reasons, and should be able to post it back here, hopefully with pictures.

Quick side note: before leaving home my laptop was sounding like a coffee grinder, i knew i would have to get a new one when i got home but i didnt want to take a new laptop on the trip. While away i took 4,000 pics (avid photographer) which i hope to whittle down to 800 or so keepers. I backed up pics from my camera card to the laptop on the trip. When i got home i backed up all my photos to my external HDD ... 3 hours later my laptop died. How close was that?!?! Long story short, i'm having trouble with PC & photo access until i get a new laptop.
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:28 PM
Graebarde Graebarde is offline
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Really liked your analysis of the trip and how it might be in T2K. One thing I would suggest for future jaunts (RL or T2K) with the hitch pin. Get some light chain, or even cord, and hook the pin to the trailer. When you unhook the pin stays with the trailer (might not be that secure on closer though) and you don't loose it. IF security is a thought, hook it to the tow vehicle? We had all our pins on light chain for the trailers and equipment.
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