OT-Written by me two years ago

[Cdnwolf]

For my time line I wrote the following:

North Korea developed medium range nuclear missiles. Launches second Korean War. Nuclear missiles hit Japan for the second time in 100 years. Also Vladivostok Russia and Guam are nuked.

US and Russia nukes Korea and fallout reaches China. Chinese forces invade Korea and territory around Vladivostok.

China invades Taiwan preceded by tactical nuclear strikes. To secure seaward approaches Luzon Philippines is also attacked.

Hope this doesn't happen ....

[The Rifleman]

It won't happen yet. The Chinese aren't quite ready with their aircraft carriers yet. After they can project their airpower beyond the range of land bases maybe.

Something more important to think about: in 1993, North Korea bought 12 diesel powered submarines from the USSR as scrap. 10 of these were Golf IIs, 2 were Foxtrots. It was assumed that they would use them for parts or try to refurbish them. That makes no sense as they were designed in the 50s and quite wore out. However, the 10 Gs all carried missles.

The North Koreans are smart enough to know that they are not able to stand up to the US/South Koreans in a conventional war, like they could have 20 years ago. Instead, they have been quite busy with asymetrical warfare. Their special forces number 100,000. They've been experimenting with lasers to blind pilots, cyber attacks on the economy and trying to crash satallites. I would venture a guess that the North Koreans could be smart enough to try to mount missle launching tubes from the G class subs onto merchent ships. They would then use them like the old WW1 "Q" boats, and have them out in the sealanes on buisness. Why hit usless Guam when you can just launch a nuke from right outside San Diego or Portland? Heck, for that matter, why not even right outside Washington DC? Didn't in WW2 ships used fake flags? Even today, LIBERIA has a huge fleet of merchant ships flying their flag... for tax purposes. They could easily register their "merchant ships" anywhere thy like. Don't forget that these people are also the ones that attached a laser to a ship and blinded pilots right of the coast of Washington State a few years back.

Think about it: The Foxtrots and Golfs are useless junk, even by third world standards. They have better... why else would they want them?

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Using a Nuclear weapon in an unprovoked way like that would be the end of the North Korea. I don't know if we would use Nukes in response but we would sure as hell would destroy all their military assets with a massive conventional attack.

I am pretty sure that we have accurate Intel on any converted ship and are tracking and monitoring them if they exist.

It would be suicide to attack the US or any other Industrial country like that for any group.

Hell Look at the outrage at the attack of 9/11, even some pacifists I know, at the time were looking for heads to roll. Now just imagine if some one nukes say Seattle or LA or San Francisco.

[The Rifleman]

A nuclear war is indeed a way to end North Korea. If they want to risk that or not is anyone's guess. As far as us knowing if they have a nuclear capable merchant ship here are a few things to chew over:

- Periodically, we do find secret tunnels that go for miles under the DMZ that were built without our knowledge

- North Korea has a fleet of submarines of unknown size that operate from concrete sub pens UNDER ground, UNDER water that come in and out of huge iron gates. The special operations community admitted that due to location and secrecy, no one knows when subs are coming and going.

- No one noticed or tracked a North Korean sub that sank a South Korean navy ship, even after torpedos were launched

- No one knows what happened to the 12 subs that were purchased 20 years ago

- No intelligence service has been able to build an accurate order of battle for the North Korean Army

- The entire Korean military is built on asymetrical warfare, to include sleeper cells, cyber attacks, operations using civillian status as cover

I've spent quite a bit of time reading about the KPA lately. I have to admit, I'm quite impressed with the general size of their forces and how they are employed. Looks to me like they've paid close attention to history and lessons learned at other nations expense, yet at the same time they are quite progressive with technology. I reccomend doing some reading as well. You'd be quite surprised.

[Louied]

Just discussing this with someone the other day.
Say 9 of those 12 subs are operational, now I don't know
IRL if this is workable but and bear with me:
- put a nuke on each boat with a SF detachment. Only the
SF team knows what their "package" is.
- bluster about my missiles and their range etc get everyone looking at that
- meanwhile I park my boats off Seattle/Bremerton, San Francisco, Honolulu, Los Angeles and San Diego. If I am feeling really tough the other four park off of
the Panama Canal, New York, DC, and Norfolk.
- now for our Navy guys, how close inshore do you think these subs can get ?
- NKs, detonate nuke on each ship. NK navy crews might not be
that crazy but I think those SF guys might be.
- how much damage to those selected locations would there be ?
- would it be enough that we might see a scenario like in Jericho ?

Crazy scenario or a "cunning plan" ?

[raketenjagdpanzer]

China = Dr. Evazan
SK = Luke Skywalker
US = Ben Kenobi
NK = Ponda Baba
Russia = Cantina bartender.

PONDA BABA (to LUKE): (GROWLS)

DR. EVAZAN (to LUKE): "He doesn't like you."

LUKE (to DR. EVAZAN and PONDA BABA): "I'm sorry."

DR. EVAZAN (to LUKE): "I don't like you either! You'd best watch yourself! We're wanted men. I've the death sentence on twelve systems!"

LUKE (to DR. EVAZAN): "I'll be careful - "

DR. EVAZAN (to LUKE): "You'll be dead!"

BEN KENOBI (INTERRUPTING): "This...little one's not worth the effort. Now, let me get you something - "

DR. EVAZAN pushes LUKE out of the way; PONDA BABA draws his sidearm and aims it at BEN KENOBI.

CANTINA BARTENDER (shouting): "No blasters! No blasters!"

BEN KENOBI draws his lightsaber and cuts off PONDA BABA'S arm. PONDA BABA yells in agony. CUT TO FLOOR, PAN L over severed arm, lying in pool of blood.

BEN KENOBI eyes bar patrons warily, deactivates lightsaber.