Fighting Light: what starting T2K gear?

[Brother in Arms]

I have been thinking a lot of running a campaign for T2K soon and the question of equipment keeps coming up in my mind. It seems that many T2K games revolve around vehicles,fuel. And not much on personal gear. Also since vehicles allow you to carry more and more equipment things start to get out of control.

Lately I have been looking at pics of Sandinstas guerrillas. They usually have a Rifle, A magazine pouch, a small ruck sack, and maybe a belt, hat or machete. I have also been watching episodes of the old SURVIVOR tv. series and the characters are always very lightly equipped with practically no "gear" to speak of.

Then the other day I was reading the "unit encounters thread" and Ole Fin really summed it up when he wrote:

"Played a game once where all we had was our uniforms, small arms, two clips of ammo and one grenade each and water and food for two days to start - we spent a lot of time initially doing searches of places like that described above just to get equipped enough to survive, let alone try to get home."

basically just enough gear for a short patrol (a 3 day pack is typical today) but I like the light weight lack of gear the Rhodesian and later South Africans carried during "COIN" warfare ops.


What do you think good grab and go start up gear would be for NATO or Warsaw troops? Also I have been looking at a lot of photos the fantasy post apocalyptic video game STALKER. And Minimalism really seems to suit the looks of Soviet gear.

BIA

[B.T.]

Brother in Arms, you are definately right: Keeping track of the personal equipment of players can be a kind of nightmare. My players hate me for some of the questions, I occasionally throw in.

IIRC during my time in the Bundeswehr we had to have certain things in the pockets of our trousers. Certainly this is true for many military units. Off course, some of these regulations would not be followed in the twilight war!

I allways look at the personal equipment as severals "levels", depending on readyness/tasks. The driver of an APC will not have all his belongings with him when driving the track. When the group leaves the APC, the driver will grab his rifle and pack. If the group is in a safe house (friendly NPCs guarding the vehicles of the group) the driver might as well take his sleeping bag with him. But will he take with him his winter gear or the E-tool? I very much doubt ist.

And another aspect to keep in mind: How detailled are you playing? There are so many little bits that nearly everyone carries with him (purse with photos of beloved ones, as an example), but these items usually are not that important for gameplay.

To come to the point: Most of the very important smaller items will be in the pockets of trousers or blouses/jackets. Things like personal 1st aid kit, earplugs, pocket knife, pen and paper, small arms cleaning kit, cravat and things like these. We can call this "Level 0". Not shure about this: Maybe one could add a pistol, which is worn on the trouser belt or in one of the pockets.

"Level 1" would be the basic protective stuff (plus Level 0): Helmet, protective mask and carrier, kevlar vest or flak jacket.

Level 2 would be the "usual" basic kit. This depends a lot on the role or task the wearer normally has to fullfill. A medics LBE would be different from a MGunners layout. There are so many different things to keep in mind, that every player should make his own decisions.
A normal rifleman's basic "Level 2" kit could be: ALICE belt and suspenders, 2 mag pouches, canteen, bayonet, maybe a second personal 1st aid kit in a compass pouch, and gloves – attached with a snap hook.

Level 3 would be the normal pack: poncho, toilet articles, food for 1 or 2 days, socks, all kind of things, the player would usually carry on a patrol.

Questions: Does really everybody carry an E-tool or sleeping bag with him? What about shelter half and a second pair of boots? Reserve uniform, parka?

Level 4 would be the rest of the belongings in a kitbag or some similar pouch.

Personal weapons or "specials" (I think of spare ammo for MGs, the light tripod for the group's MG, the LAW, whatever …) could be handled irrespective of the "Levels". And, off course, depending on situation these kit-bits could be adapted. As example: PC carries with him his Level 3 equipment plus sleeping bag.

Whenever a group of PCs is forced to leave a shelter or the vehicle, the GM could inform the players, that they can carry with them "Level 3 equipment plus 2 items" (Maybe a jerry can with water and the rifle, as you, the GM, dictate!) or whatever you think appropriate, depending on your GM knowledge and the situation.

I use these "Levels" in my group and up to now it works fine.

Hope this helps and gives some suggestions, that you can work with!

[.45cultist]

That's one of the RW problems, soldiers are up armored and loaded down like their vehicles. A campaign based on a base defense or a grounded air crew might trim the gear down.

[Olefin]

Or if you really wanted to trim things down have the start of the campaign be that they are the crew and soldiers bailing out of a Bradley or M1 or vehicle of your choice that got them clear but is now too badly broken down to keep going

meaning they have what they are carrying personally plus whatever was in the vehicle when it went into combat at Kalisz and thats it - which depending on the vehicle could be pretty good for the players or pretty bad - a Bradley or M88 could have a lot of stuff - but if its limited to what you can carry then do you really need all those M231's?

[cavtroop]

I love this aspect of roleplaying, the equipment shuffle. What I used to do is to have a page for just my equipment - I'd have the page broken down into sections - one for each 'containter' on my PCs body - say, one section for 'backpack', one for 'LBE', one for 'kit bag in vehicle' etc. Then i'd list what equipment I have stored where. That way, if I were to leave my vehicle to continue on foot, I'd just have to say that I'm grabbing my backpack and my LBE (which is obviously usually worn) and blammo, I have a list of everything on me. As a player, it was up to me to keep track of what was where, and if the list was wrong, oops, i forgot to move something from my kit bag to my backpack, oh well!

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by B.T.

Brother in Arms, you are definately right: Keeping track of the personal equipment of players can be a kind of nightmare. My players hate me for some of the questions, I occasionally throw in.

IIRC during my time in the Bundeswehr we had to have certain things in the pockets of our trousers. Certainly this is true for many military units. Off course, some of these regulations would not be followed in the twilight war!

I allways look at the personal equipment as severals "levels", depending on readyness/tasks. The driver of an APC will not have all his belongings with him when driving the track. When the group leaves the APC, the driver will grab his rifle and pack. If the group is in a safe house (friendly NPCs guarding the vehicles of the group) the driver might as well take his sleeping bag with him. But will he take with him his winter gear or the E-tool? I very much doubt ist.

And another aspect to keep in mind: How detailled are you playing? There are so many little bits that nearly everyone carries with him (purse with photos of beloved ones, as an example), but these items usually are not that important for gameplay.

To come to the point: Most of the very important smaller items will be in the pockets of trousers or blouses/jackets. Things like personal 1st aid kit, earplugs, pocket knife, pen and paper, small arms cleaning kit, cravat and things like these. We can call this "Level 0". Not shure about this: Maybe one could add a pistol, which is worn on the trouser belt or in one of the pockets.

"Level 1" would be the basic protective stuff (plus Level 0): Helmet, protective mask and carrier, kevlar vest or flak jacket.

Level 2 would be the "usual" basic kit. This depends a lot on the role or task the wearer normally has to fullfill. A medics LBE would be different from a MGunners layout. There are so many different things to keep in mind, that every player should make his own decisions.
A normal rifleman's basic "Level 2" kit could be: ALICE belt and suspenders, 2 mag pouches, canteen, bayonet, maybe a second personal 1st aid kit in a compass pouch, and gloves – attached with a snap hook.

Level 3 would be the normal pack: poncho, toilet articles, food for 1 or 2 days, socks, all kind of things, the player would usually carry on a patrol.

Questions: Does really everybody carry an E-tool or sleeping bag with him? What about shelter half and a second pair of boots? Reserve uniform, parka?

Level 4 would be the rest of the belongings in a kitbag or some similar pouch.

Personal weapons or "specials" (I think of spare ammo for MGs, the light tripod for the group's MG, the LAW, whatever …) could be handled irrespective of the "Levels". And, off course, depending on situation these kit-bits could be adapted. As example: PC carries with him his Level 3 equipment plus sleeping bag.

Whenever a group of PCs is forced to leave a shelter or the vehicle, the GM could inform the players, that they can carry with them "Level 3 equipment plus 2 items" (Maybe a jerry can with water and the rifle, as you, the GM, dictate!) or whatever you think appropriate, depending on your GM knowledge and the situation.

I use these "Levels" in my group and up to now it works fine.

Hope this helps and gives some suggestions, that you can work with!

When I was training on Guam,the poncho and liner really were great. I now have a collection, one for the vehicle,one for the couch, several in the camping stuff.

[unkated]

I'm with Cavtroop. I generally go through the same exercise - what is packed where, what is worn or generally carried, and switching items as needed.

I check the load on me (and in the latest case on my riding horse and pack horses) and various containers. I'll mark stuff off as extended or add new stuff found in an appropriate container.

If I need to leave the burning vehicle after grabbing the rifle, then I know all the stuff listed as 'carried' or 'LBE' is available - and that all the stuff marked backpack is likely lost. Equally, I know that if I say 'I grab the backpack, I have a handy list of what I have (and about how much it weighs).

Uncle Ted

[Brother in Arms]

This is great info guys!


But I think my original point was more about people carrying to much. I think the key to surviving in T2K enviroment would be mobility as well as gear. But I think often people get so bogged down with gear (too prepared) that they are somewhat comfortable.

I also think the a difference is most of my twilight games take place in the U.S. so somewhat out of the military context, or when they are its after most of the good stuff is gone to Europe. I have played a few games when I was in Europe with other soldiers but they usually didn't involve having tons and tons of gear but I was very cautious of how and were it was carried.

I think I have alwyas been really interested in LRRPS, Rangers, Militia, Minute men, and Light companies that makes me think about this stuff.



One of my favorite games that my character was a Mechanic and had to leave the fire base he was in because it was getting the crap knocked out of it by artillery. So we escaped in an armored. I didn't even have a rifle. We ended cut off so bad that we were riding around in a captured WW2 Russian Scout car BA-64 I think. After some scary engadements with Warsaw troops (Hungarian and East German) I eventually found myself armed with a Hungarian AMD-65 that I had to remove the flash hider from so it could fit in the armored car (and a 75 round drum magazine ) I also ended up with mostly captured gear like a east german jacket with fur collar. I also managed to find some sunglasses with green lenses but I think they were civilian.

[.45cultist]

Using a fusion of "Bangkok, Cesspool of the Orient" and T2013, with a later timeline for a new campaign so I can test the light fighter. T2K2 V2.2 rules. Using the lists compiled here,I'll try to make a couple of lists. Looking at Thai gun laws, pistols, pump shotguns and bolt, lever rifles to start out the early year with fun stuff later.