Mexican Army Equipment 1995

[rcaf_777]

Here is some I put together since I was wondering what the Mexican army had at the begin of twlight

Sources

SIPRI Arms Transfers Database: http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/values.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Army

And yes the Mexican Army still has US half tracks and M-520 Goers see the link below which has photos taken of them in 2003 of them. They also still M8 Greyhounds and some M74 Tank Recovery Vehicles

http://rtvmodeler.com/MEX/tierra/global.htm

[ArmySGT.]

Mexico isn't listed specifically.... Most of their non-domestic equipment can be found in this older edition of the WWEG.

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/weg2001.pdf

[rcaf_777]

Almost of the army domestic equipment was developed until later on (2000's) and the army still relay a lot of imports

An interesting possibility would be the Sedena Henschel HWK-11, which was a joint project between the Mexican defense secretary (SEDENA) and Henschel Wehrtechnik GmbH of West Germany. Originally 450 were to be produced but on 40 were actually made.

I am thinking that some of that would be factory is still around as SEDENA did an upgrade of their AMX-VCI recently. Could they start making new HWK-11 agian?

Just a though!

I also wonder how the Mexican would fair in their US invasion. I mean they have never mounted a campaign outside of Mexico and they prohibited by their constitution unless war is declared. They have also never had fought huge foreign invasion that it won. The Soviets have a lot of work to do.

[Olefin]

I looked at Concise World armies 2009 - by Ravi Rikhye and have a few updates to your list - some of this equipment would be in storage - the M5 tanks were used in Chiapas in 1999 so they would have been around in the game invasion timeline for sure

M3 light tank - 30 in service
M5 light tank - 15 in service
M8 Armored Car - 50 in service
MAC-1 Armored Car - 50 in service
M3A1 scout car - 100 in service
Mowag - 30 in service

You also have the DN-IV Caballo AOC - 40 in service

thus the only real tanks they have are the 45 M3/M5's

[Olefin]

but again keep in mind who they fought at least initially - mostly a collection of small National Guard transportation and military police companies, SWAT teams, local militia and State Guards who probably had almost no way to stop any kind of armor

[Draq]

Most US forces were in Europe, Africa, Iran, Korea/Japan/china.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Olefin

I looked at Concise World armies 2009 - by Ravi Rikhye and have a few updates to your list - some of this equipment would be in storage - the M5 tanks were used in Chiapas in 1999 so they would have been around in the game invasion timeline for sure

M3 light tank - 30 in service
M5 light tank - 15 in service
M8 Armored Car - 50 in service
MAC-1 Armored Car - 50 in service
M3A1 scout car - 100 in service
Mowag - 30 in service

You also have the DN-IV Caballo AOC - 40 in service

thus the only real tanks they have are the 45 M3/M5's

None of these has the armor plate to survive light anti armor weapons like the M203 or MK19.

M203s are organic to every fire team regardless of Combat Arms, Combat Support, or Combat Service Support.

For Military Police, The MK19 is issued one per vehicle except a few units that have an M2HB in a squad. Three M1025 or M1114 HMMWV with a MK19 per squad. This or two Mk19s and one M2HB.

This is in addition to three M9s, two M4s, one M203, and in the 90s an M60, later an M2HB. One transitional unit I was in it was one M4 dropped and an M249 and an M60.

The ammunition load is 10 cans of 40mm linked HEDP.

[rcaf_777]

Originally Posted by Olefin

M3 light tank - 30 in service, M5 light tank - 15 in service

I dont think think theses are light tank but the M3 and M5 Halftrack which were give to Mexico in the 1960's

[Olefin]

Mexico had M3 and M5 Stuarts in operation well into the 1990s' - they were used during the Chiapas rebellion - they also had several M8 75mm howitzer mortar carriages - the only Shermans they had stiill in operation were three tank retriever versions

They orginally got 25 each of the M3A1 and M5 light tanks at the same time they got the 100 M3A1 scout cars

The M8's and the remaining Stuarts fought in 1994 against the Zapatist rebels - they were there to guard against any kind of Guatemalan incursion

[unkated]

Originally Posted by rcaf_777

I also wonder how the Mexican would fair in their US invasion. I mean they have never mounted a campaign outside of Mexico and they prohibited by their constitution unless war is declared.

Clearly, it required large bribes form GDW to get the Mexican MoD to consider such an action, illegal under the Mexican constitution!



Uncle Ted

[Olefin]

actually what still gets me is why the Mexicans didnt declare war on the Soviets - it wasnt the US that nuked Mexico's petroleum facilities after all - yes they did get nuked to deny the oil to the US - but actually bringing in the Soviets to help them after they killed who knows how many Mexicans in the nuclear strikes shows that whoever was leading Mexico would have been someone who Hitler and Stalin probably would have been queing up to shake his hand one day

[Webstral]

We had a conversation along these lines some time ago. I’ll try to summarize what was discussed briefly (not my strong suit, as many of you know).


I think there was general agreement that the Mexican Army was not in a very good position to project power into the United States in 1998 for a variety of reasons if nothing was done to improve the state of the Mexican Army between August 1995 and November 1997. For the moment, I’ll skip over training and logistics and go to the AFV park.


I have long maintained that the PRC would have responded to the invasion by the Soviet Union by going shopping. Chinese indebtedness would have given China some leverage over Western actions, since the fall of the regime in Beijing would have unknown consequences for payment on Western loans for China. In addition to ramping up their own production, the Chinese would have bought everything that wasn’t nailed down. I believe equipment would have been transferred from the interior and every front that wasn’t fighting the Soviets with the intent of replacing that equipment with whatever junk could be acquired from anyplace else at a low cost.


This situation opens up a door for the Mexican Army to make some changes. They have an opportunity to offload some of their older fighting vehicles for cash, although not very much cash. At the same time, they would have the opportunity to sell hardware to China. I have posited that the Mexican arms industry obtains the rights to manufacture VAB, Lynxes, AMX-30, and a few other French systems under license specifically for the Chinese market. The Mexican Army thus sheds a fair few of its older systems with the intent of replacing them incrementally as orders for China roll off the assembly lines. As a result, by November 1997 the Mexican Army has more modern equipment than ever and has a more uniform TOE than ever.


The heating up of the nuclear exchange means that hardware intended for shipment to China can be absorbed by the Mexican Army. Consequently, there are enough AMX-30 available for Second, Third, and Fourth Mexican Armies each to get a package.

[Olefin]

I can see the Mexicans maybe making the AMX-13 but not the AMX-30 - you dont just jump into making tanks when previously the best you have ever been able to make is armored cars

plus while the AMX-30 is not suited to Mexico's road and rail systems, which in the 90's were in pretty bad shape, the AMX-13 or a armored car is. If they used the 90mm turret version it fits with their ARV's they already have on hand. In addition that vehicle has a ton of parts that are in the AMX-VCI of which they have over 400 of them - meaning that spare parts and logistics for the AMX-13 would be a snap

However keep in mind that a tank plant takes years to get up to speed, especially if they dont have experience building them, which they dont. They would have had to start production, tooling, etc.. years earlier - and by that I mean 1992-93 - they would be lucky if by mid-98 they had made a dozen tanks with start point of when the Soviets invaded China - its just not that easy to start building tanks from scratch and get any significant numbers made

I know - I worked for BAE for years - you don't just start building heavy tanks with no experience, no trained techs, no trained armor welders (which takes quite a while to train), let alone produce heavy armor plate you need for tanks when everyone in the world is trying to corner the market on it

Plus Mexico suddenly going on a crash program to build a ton of MBT's and deploying them on the US border would have been seen big time as a threat to the US - and their whole invasion, as scripted by GDW- works as it does because no one considers them a serious threat.

Otherwise the 49th, 197th and other units would have been on the border and kicked their butts as they came over - instead of lightly armed riot control troops

Mexico does however have experience building APC's and armored cars - and thats where the better candidate comes that supports canon and would be much faster for them to get up to speed to where they would have built a good amount by the invasion -

you said the Lynx - how about instead they get a license to build the ERC-90 Sagaies and upgrade the 120 ERC-90 Lynx's that they had to that configuration - now you have a gun that can take on MBT's and defeat them - and since they are already operating 120 of them again they have the spare parts, logistics and most important of all experience with the vehicles

the Sagaie was built to take on T-72's - meaning they would be effective against the M48's and M60's that guard units would most likely have

and as canon said the AFV's they had were almost universally the ERC-90 - so the newer version being built there ties in perfectly

And the ERC-90 being built by Mexico wouldnt be seen as the threat that MBT's are - tank generals count tanks, not armored cars or APC's -

If Mexico got MBT's like the AMX-30 then they would have never needed Soviet Division Cuba - they brought them over to get the MBT's they didnt have - otherwise why use scarce fuel, transport and logistics to bring them over when you already have MBT's in hand

[swaghauler]

A resurgent Socialist regime in Russia would not have received Western aid in the early through mid 90's (as it did in our real history). This would have led to Russia seeking monetary aid "elsewhere" in the world. Two immediate options would have been sanctioned Iran and Iraq. Russia could have traded Arms (and nuclear development assistance) for oil; Deteriorating its relationship with the West even more. Another area where Russia could have gained actual "capital" in US dollars would have been through the South American Drug Cartels. They have always had a "working agreement" with the Russian Mafia; Imagine how far they could extend their power if they bought Russian tanks, helos, and planes. You could go so far as to assert that the Cartels toppled the US friendly Mexican government and installed a "puppet regime" in response to joint US/Mexican operations against them. They have huge levels of funding and the Russians were more than willing to provide the new regime with the hardware and "training assistance" needed to keep them in power (at the appropriate cost, of course). This would also help explain the invasion of US soil. The Cartels were just securing their "drug trafficking routes" into the US.