How Do You Do Reflex Sights in Twilight V2.2?

[swaghauler]

I was curious as to how those of you in this forum handle Reflex or "Red Dot" sights? I haven't needed this until now so here is my take.

A reflex sight's primary advantage is that it enables you to line up a target with a single object (the red dot or crosshair) instead of two objects (front and rear sights). This is not only faster than "Iron Sights" (with their complex alignment) or Magnified Optics (with their limited field of view, eye relief, and parallax), but also a bit more precise in "snap shooting."
While these sights are really fast because they are basically "Parallax free" and have very long "Eye Relief," They really don't provide much of an advantage over either Magnified Optics or Iron Sights on an "aimed shot." This is due to both a lack of magnification and the "coarseness" (size) of the typical red dot. These sights DO help in low light, though.

My idea is this: I am going to give the Reflex Sight BOTH a Reduction of 1 on Weapon Speed AND an increased Hit Probability on Snap Shots. However, there will be NO Hit Probability increase on Aimed Shots. Thus my Hit Probabilities would look like this (please note that I use different Skill Difficulty Levels so I will post MY Skill Multipliers in Parenthesis).

My Chances To Hit Will Be:
Snap Shot:....................... Iron Sights: ............................. Reflex Sights:

Point Blank Range: ............... Routine (Skill X 1.5) ................... Easy (Skill X 2)
Short Range: ....................... Average (Skill) .......................... Routine (Skill X 1.5)
Medium Range: .................... Difficult (Skill X 0.5) .................. Average (Skill)
Long Range: ........................ Formidable (Skill X 0.25) ............ Difficult (Skill X 0.5)
Extreme Range: ................... Impossible (Skill X 0.1) .............. Formidable (Skill X 0.25)
Maximum Range: ................. NOT ALLOWED ........................... NOT ALLOWED

Aimed Shot:.................... All Sighting Methods:

Point Blank Range: ............. Very Easy (Skill X 3)
Short Range: ..................... Easy (Skill X 2)
Medium Range: .................. Average (Skill)
Long Range: ...................... Difficult (Skill X 0.5)
Extreme Range: ................. Formidable (Skill X 0.25)
Maximum Range: ............... Impossible (Skill X 0.1)*
*Other conditions apply.

I figured they would also have the same advantage as Night Sights when used in low light in my game.

Magnified Reflex Sights:

I know some Reflex Sights are magnified in real life. The Steyer and H&K X1.5 power red dots, as well as FN's X1.6 power red dot on the FN2000, come to mind immediately. I think I will allow magnification UP TO X2 to still use the Reflex Rules above AND GIVE THEM THE RANGE ADD OF MAGNIFIED OPTICS AS WELL (See my posting in Kdusk's Thread Sniper Shots for how I do Magnified Optics). Beyond X2 Magnification, both Eye Relief and Parallax (which are both present in magnified optics) would NEGATE the increase in Hit Probability. For the lower quality FN2000 X1.6 sight, I will add 2 meters. For the higher quality Austrian and H&K X1.5 Optics, I will add 3 meters to the range of the AUG, G11, and the CAWS.

Magnified Combat Optics:

I am going to treat Magnified Combat Optics like the Trijicon ACOG and the Elcan as Magnified Optics (a X4 Power Optic would provide a 10m Range Bonus to short range, be one level more difficult to hit with at 20 meters and two levels more difficult to hit with at 4 meters) WITH the following BONUS for the illuminated reticule and wider field of view. The older Tritium models will receive a bonus of 1 on To Hit Rolls (ie a 15 becomes 14) in daylight and a bonus of 2 (ie a 15 becomes a 13) at night. The newer digital and FiberOptic models will get a bonus of 2 (ie a 15 becomes 13) in both conditions. They will also have the same advantage as night sights in low light.

Red Dot Magnifiers:

When an operator puts a separate magnifier in front of a Reflex Sight, he will essentially convert that Reflex Sight into a Magnified Combat Optic by doing so. All the rules for Magnified Combat Optics WILL apply and the bonus in Hit Difficulty WILL BE NEGATED due to the parallax and eye relief imposed by the Magnifier. If the Magnifier is a flip type, the operator can transition between the bonuses for a Magnified Combat Optic and a Reflex Sight. The sights will generally only add their Magnification to the rifle's base range (ie a X3 power Magnifier adds 3 meters to the base range) due to the imprecise nature of the placement of most Magnifiers in relation to most Reflex sights .

Anyway, these are the preliminary rules I have right now (and are of course subject to change). How do you handle Reflex Sights in your game?

Swag

[Tnchi2a]

Laser Sight
A laser sight is mounted atop a weapon in the same way as a telescopic sight,
and must be carefully fitted and sighted in (Average [Slug Weapon(Rifle or Pistol)]),
a task requiring 30 minutes and 10 rounds. The laser is adjusted to put a red
dot on the target at the point of impact for that particular weapon, and hitting
the target becomes easier (although it still requires some skill). Ultraviolet and
infrared laser versions exist.
Laser sights may be fitted to any small arm, and can only be used in semiautomatic
fire. Laser sights may only be used at 40 meters or less, and enable up to
three shots fired during a phase to count as aimed shots instead of only the first
one (all other shots fired in the phase count as quick shots). All other modifiers
(movement by target, movement by firer, etc.) still apply.
Weight : 1 kg
Price : $800 (S/C)

Conspiracy Rules(Dark Conspiracy 3rd edition) Page 276

[Tnchi2a]

Conspiracy Rules is a great book for the more up-to-date tech.
you can get it for $10 off drive-thru.com.
it uses 2.2 rules for the most part with some updates.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Laser Sight
A laser sight is mounted atop a weapon in the same way as a telescopic sight,
and must be carefully fitted and sighted in (Average [Slug Weapon(Rifle or Pistol)]),
a task requiring 30 minutes and 10 rounds. The laser is adjusted to put a red
dot on the target at the point of impact for that particular weapon, and hitting
the target becomes easier (although it still requires some skill). Ultraviolet and
infrared laser versions exist.
Laser sights may be fitted to any small arm, and can only be used in semiautomatic
fire. Laser sights may only be used at 40 meters or less, and enable up to
three shots fired during a phase to count as aimed shots instead of only the first
one (all other shots fired in the phase count as quick shots). All other modifiers
(movement by target, movement by firer, etc.) still apply.
Weight : 1 kg
Price : $800 (S/C)

Conspiracy Rules(Dark Conspiracy 3rd edition) Page 276

My only issue with Dark Conspiracy 3rd edition rules is the lack of attention to detail in the rules.

There is no differentiation between First Generation "Red Dot" Lasers (in the 650-nanometer red wavelength) and Second Generation "Red Dot" Lasers (in the MUCH MORE VISIBLE 635-nanometer orange-red wavelength) with Picatinny Rail mounting capability, MUCH greater battery life and SIGNIFICANTLY LONGER LOW LIGHT RANGE. There is NO mention of "Green Dot" lasers (in the MOST VISIBLE OF ALL 532-nanometer wavelength) that have AT LEAST FIVE TIMES the Generation II "Red Dot" Laser's commonly accepted DAYLIGHT range of 10 meters (50 meters in dim light, and 500 meters in darkness).

Once I "tweak" my rules for lasers (including the ALL IMPORTANT temperature ranges at which they will operate), I'll get them posted.

[swaghauler]

Weapon mounted "Laser Pointers" (as the US Military refers to them) have existed since the late 70's. They began to appear in the US Civilian firearms market in the early 1980's as well. A "Laser Pointer" or "Laser Sight," projects a red dot onto a target at range. These Laser Sights were initially used by military personnel using night vision goggles to aim their weapons. It is impossible to see conventional rifle and pistol sights using either active or passive night vision, and these "Pointers" enabled operators to target threats by precisely placing the projected "red dot" on a target.

The History Of Laser Sights:

The first generation of Laser Sights were both visible dot versions in the near infrared and infrared versions. These GEN I Laser Sights were housed in large 20mm to 30mm tubes had to be installed by a gunsmith and used proprietary batteries with an average life span of 30 minutes per charge (or 300 combat Rounds in my 6-second initiative system).

The GEN I visible laser system used a beam in the 650-nanometer wavelength that was effectively visible in bright light (daylight) at 5 meters to 7 meters. It could be seen in dim light/overcast conditions to 15 meters and in darkness to 100 meters. The GEN I red laser has an operating temperature range of 15 degrees F/-9.4 degrees C to 100 degrees F/37.7 degrees C. Outside of this temperature range, the laser WILL NOT WORK. GEN I Lasers were replaced in military service in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

GEN I Infrared Lasers were visible with both starlight night vision and thermal sights and could easily be seen at up to 1000 meters. Since GEN I IR Laser Sights were generally restricted to military and certain law enforcement personnel, they were often more powerful than visible red dot lasers. IR Lasers with power ranges of up to 1 watt were in existence and 50 milliwatt IR Lasers were common (compared to 5 milliwatts for visible light lasers)

GEN II Red Laser Sights became common in the early 1990's. These sights were designed to use commonly available lithium-ion batteries, have better sighting adjustments, and user installable mounting systems. The most important change in GEN II Red Laser systems was the adoption of a newer spectrum emitter in the 635-nanometer range. The "red-orange dot" projected by GEN II Lasers would remain "the visual standard" until the advent of "green dot" lasers in the late 1990's. GEN II Lasers were also the first generation to be limited to 5 milliwatts by FDA Regulation 3R for civilian Lasers. Military lasers were NOT limited, but many manufacturers chose to adhere to the new standards because the standards were established for making lasers "eye-safe." GEN II lasers also see an increase of operational temperature range. They now operate in from 15F/-9.4C to 120F/48.8C. this wide temperature operating range is what prevented red dots from being completely replaced by green lasers.

GEN II Red Laser Sights can be seen clearly in bright daylight out to 10 meters. Dim light/overcast conditions allow the dot to be seen at up to 25 meters. The red-orange dot can clearly be seen at up to 250 meters in the dark. Battery life expands to 2 to 3 hours (1200 to 1800 combat rounds) with easily obtained "over-the -counter" batteries.

GEN II Infrared Lasers gain a range of over 2000 meters and a battery life similar to GEN II visible lasers. GEN II IR Lasers also become available to the civilian market during the 1990's.

GEN II Green Lasers appeared at the end of the twentieth century. The "green dot laser" operates in the 532-nanometer wavelength and provides "an order of magnitude improvement in laser sight visibility." GEN II Green Lasers can be seen CLEARLY at 50 meters in bright sunlight. The dot is visible at 100 meters in dim light/overcast conditions and at up to 600 meters in darkness. The downside to these lasers is that they are very expensive, use about three times the power of a red dot and have a much more limited environmental temperature range. The functional temperature range of green lasers is 40F/+4.4C to 100F/+37.7C which precludes their use in certain jungle or desert environments. The typical battery life of a GEN II Green Laser is about 1 hour (600 combat rounds) of time.

GEN III Lasers show up in the first decade of the 21st Century. The primary changes are a shrinking of laser size, a large increase in battery life, and a modest increase in the range of red lasers (green lasers see a much larger increase in range).

Size of GEN III Lasers: Red lasers (and IR lasers) become small enough to replace the rear sight of a Glock pistol (LaserLyte), while green lasers reduce in size by about 20%.

Battery Life of GEN III Lasers: Red lasers of normal size can now be used for up to 48 hours (28,800 combat rounds) while green lasers reach a battery life of around 6 hours (3600 combat rounds).

Range of GEN III Lasers: Red Lasers gain a slight range increase in the dark giving them a range of 10 meters (daylight), 25 meters (overcast), and 500 meters (dark). Green Lasers can now be seen at 100 meters (daylight), 250 meters (overcast), and 1000 meters (darkness). IR Lasers can now reach a range of 4000 meters.

Ultraviolet Lasers become available in 2007 (BlueRays were the first commercial use for them) but no information is available on any sights and they are restricted to military and law enforcement use at this writing.

Detection Of Lasers:

Visible light lasers have variable chances of detection depending on the aspect from which you view them. If you imagine a hex grid for facing, your chances of seeing the projected "dot" of a laser are as follows:
Front (facing the laser sight): Routine (1.5 X Skill)
Forward Oblique (off-angle from facing the laser sight): Average (Skill)
Rear Oblique (off-angle facing direction the laser is projecting): Difficult (0.5 X Skill)
Rear (standing behind the laser sight user): Easy (2 X Skill)

These chances improve by ONE LEVEL in rain, smoke, dust or snow and apply to both red and green sights. In snow/smoke/dusty conditions, the laser will appear as a "ghostly & particulate" beam. Otherwise, you will only see a dot. IR Lasers can ONLY be seen by Night Vision or Thermal Imagers. The night vision user will see ALL LASERS (Visible & IR) as a beam in its entirety.

Obstructing Laser Sights:

Visible Lasers can be "obstructed" by rain, fog, smoke or snow. Light weather will reduce the Laser Sight's visibility by 1/2 of its range in meters. Heavy rain, fog, smoke or snow will reduce it to 1/4 of its range in meters.
Civilian IR Lasers will be reduced to 1/2 range by heavy rain, fog, smoke, and snow. Military IR lasers over the FDA imposed 5 milliwatt power limit for civilian lasers are NOT affected by weather. WP, the Shorta aerosol, and dual-spectrum smoke will block ALL LASERS.

Laser Zeroing and The Ballistic Curve:

It is a proven fact that lasers emit their beams in a straight line BUT bullets travel in a Ballistic Arc. The point of aim of a laser sight will diverge enough from a bullet's trajectory to cause aiming issues beyond 100 meters. This and the laser's limited visibility mean that most Laser Sights are zeroed for CQB ranges. Occasionally, a user may need to zero at longer ranges (especially IR laser users). A user can zero a laser to cover a specific Range Band that is farther than 100 meters away. This does mean that the laser will NOT BE ACCURATE TO POINT OF AIM AT CLOSER OR FARTHER RANGE BANDS UNLESS THEY ARE UNDER 100 METERS IN TOTAL.

Using Lasers In The Game:

I will treat Laser Sights like Reflex Sights above (increasing To Hit Level) as long as their Visible Range is equal to or greater than the Weapon's Range Band. Otherwise, they will give a bonus of 1 To Hit (ie a roll of 15 becomes 14) in daylight and a bonus of 2 in darkness. They will give NO BONUS on Aimed Shots as they all possess a level of "deflection" up to several inches from the weapon's point of aim due to the "straight line" nature of the laser's beam versus the Ballistic Arc of the weapon's round.
Here is an example of determining how a laser sight will affect a weapon's accuracy. Joe adds a GEN II Red Dot Lasergrip to his 1911. It will allow Short Range Snap Shots at Routine Skill (Skill X 1.5) in daylight. In lower light scenarios (such as inside a building) it will allow a Routine chance to hit on a snap shot at Short Range, an Average (Skill) chance to hit on a snap shot at Medium Range, and a bonus of 1 on his to hit roll at Long Range. In conditions of darkness, it will allow an increase in Skill Difficulty Level at all ranges (but normal low light visibility penalties will still apply and may cancel out the laser sight's skill level bonus).

[swaghauler]

I'll post the stats for laser sights tomorrow. I need to weight my Laser Grips, Laser Guide Rod, and my Flashlight/Laser sight to see what they weight. I'll try to include examples of all generations. Most of my lasers are GEN II and GEN III.

[.45cultist]

You could put that in their(DC's) E mag, Protodimension. I's pretty comprehensive.

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

My Chances To Hit Will Be:
Snap Shot:....................... Iron Sights: ............................. Reflex Sights:

Point Blank Range: ............... Routine (Skill X 1.5) ................... Easy (Skill X 2)
Short Range: ....................... Average (Skill) .......................... Routine (Skill X 1.5)
Medium Range: .................... Difficult (Skill X 0.5) .................. Average (Skill)
Long Range: ........................ Formidable (Skill X 0.25) ............ Difficult (Skill X 0.5)
Extreme Range: ................... Impossible (Skill X 0.1) .............. Formidable (Skill X 0.25)
Maximum Range: ................. NOT ALLOWED ........................... NOT ALLOWED




Swag

That's good, but I've never like "not allowed" chances. How about very impossible or ridiculous or fool's errand or you don't have a prayer something like that? When chances were really low, I used to take a d20, give the player a d20, and tell him to roll and match my roll. But I never just told a player, "you don't have a chance." maybe they had a chance in hell.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by pmulcahy11b

That's good, but I've never like "not allowed" chances. How about very impossible or ridiculous or fool's errand or you don't have a prayer something like that? When chances were really low, I used to take a d20, give the player a d20, and tell him to roll and match my roll. But I never just told a player, "you don't have a chance." maybe they had a chance in hell.

Maximum Range requires the following in my game:
-The ability to SEE the target (ranges can exceed the ability to see a man sized object WITHOUT a magnified optic.
-A positive hit value at Extreme Range.
-A prone or "bench-rested" position
-An "Aim" Action (which doesn't increase the hit chance)


Remember that Max Range is shooting BEYOND most weapons' limit of "practical accuracy." It is for instances like the (now not so) "mythical" 1-mile sniper shot.

[swaghauler]

Here are some commonly available Laser Sights:

Crimson Trace Lasergrip:

The Lasergrip was introduced in the mid-1990's and is available for dozens of models of handguns. Early versions were GEN II Red Dots but both GEN II Green Dots and GEN III models in both configurations are available today.

GEN II RED DOT: Price= $259.00 (C/C), Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk= 0, Power= 2 lithium 2020 batteries with 2 hr (1200 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 10m (daylight), 25m (indoors), 250m (darkness).

GEN III GREEN DOT: Price= $429.00 (C/C), Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk= 0, Power= 2 lithium 2032 batteries with 4 hr (2400 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 100m (daylight), 250m (indoors), 1000m (darkness).

Fire Field Laser Modules GEN III:

Fire Field produces low-cost lasers and optics and two of their most prominent items are the Compact Laser Module and Subcompact Laser Module. These units mount on any 1913 Picatinny Rail and possess simple ambidextrous on and off buttons. They are a common example of many low-cost lasers on the market.

Compact GEN II RED DOT: Price= $97.00 (V/V), Wt= 0.2kg, Bulk= 0.8, Power= 1 CR123 Li battery with a 12 hour (7200 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 10m (daylight), 25m (indoors), 250m (darkness).

Compact GEN III GREEN DOT: Price= $129.00 (C/C), Wt= 0.2kg, Bulk= 0.8, Power= 1 CR123 Li battery with a 4 hour (2400 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 100m (daylight), 250m (indoors), 1000m (darkness).

Subcompact GEN II-III GREEN DOT: Price= $157.00 (C/C), Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk 0.75, Power= 3.7v 60mAh rechargable (USB recharge as well) 1 hr (600 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 50m (daylight), 100m (indoors), 600m (darkness).

Insight Technologies Laser Sights/Laser Designators:

As a major US defense contractor, Insight Technologies has produced a number of laser sights, laser designators, and night vision devices for military and law enforcement. Below are three of their products in service ith the US military.

AN/PEQ 6 Laser Aiming Module: This unit is a combination visible light flashlight, IR flashlight, GEN II red dot visible laser, and GEN II IR laser in one package. It can ONLY fit on the H&K MK23 SOCCOM .45 Caliber Pistol without a rail adapter. about 10,000 of these units were made and they are almost always found on the SOCCOM Pistol. The IR illuminator/visible light flashlight module is 150 Lumens with a spotlight configuration and has an effective Range of 100 meters. Cone of light is 1/10 the distance to an object (ie 10 meters wide at 100 meters). The entire unit is shockproof (durability 8, see my posting in Kdusk's Sniper Shots Thread about this) and waterproof to 20 meters.
Price= $1200 (R/R), Wt= 0.25kg, Bulk 0.8, Power= proprietary dry Li battery 30 minutes (300 combat rounds) flashlight, 1 hour (600 combat rounds) laser run times, Effective Range= Red Dot: 10m (daylight), 25m (indoors), 250m (dark); IR Laser: 1000m.

AN/PEQ-2 Laser Designator/Illuminator Module: This is a mid-1990's visible Red Dot/IR laser unit that can also act as an IR Illuminator for night vision devices and as a Laser Designator for laser-guided munitions like JDAM, Hellfire, Copperhead, and Excaliber. More than 100,000 units were acquired by the US military. It was supposed to be replaced by the AN/PEQ-15A but continues to soldier on to this very day. It is shockproof (durability 8) and waterproof to 20 meters.
Price= $1280.00 (S/S), Wt= 0.25kg, Bulk= 0.8, Power= proprietary dry Li battery 4 hr (2400 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= Red Dot: 10m (daylight), 25m (indoors), 250m (darkness); IR Laser: 2000m for pointer & designator.

AN/PEQ-15A GEN III Red Dot/IR Laser Designator/Illuminator Module:
This is the upgraded version of the AN/PEQ-2 and it retains ALL of the former unit's functions. It is waterproof to 30 meters and an optional Green Dot laser version is available. The US military procured 100,000 of these in the first decade of the 21st Century.
Price= $1329.00 (S/S), Wt=0.2kg, Bulk 0.75, Power= (2)CR123 Li batteries(?) with a 5 hr (3000 combat rounds) run time (4 hrs/2400rnds for the optional green dot), Effective Range= Red Dot: 10m (daylight), 25m (indoors), 500m (darkness); IR Laser: 600m (low power), 2000m (hi power); optional Green Dot (R/R availability): 100m (daylight), 250m (indoors), 1000m (darkness).

LaserMax Recoil/Guide Rod Lasers:

Introduced in the mid-1990's, this laser system replaced a pistol's guide rod with a laser pointer. It boasted the smallest difference between the laser's point of aim and the barrel's point of impact of any laser sight at the time. It was subject to "fouling" of the laser from unburned powder being deposited on the unit, though. It was considered a small price to pay for the lack of bulk and accuracy the unit provided. There is one other disadvantage for some pistol users. Not all pistols use a recoil spring guide rod or a full-length guide rod. These pistols CANNOT use a LaserMax system because they have no opening on the front of their slide for the laser beam to exit. Some examples of these guns include but are not limited to, the 1911, the Browning Hi-Power, the CZ 50 and 52, the Walther PP and its clones (including the Makarov), and the Walther P38/P1. I would visit LaserMax's website to see what pistols they produce lasers for.

LaserMax GEN II RED DOT: Price= $285.00 (C/C) Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk 0, Power= (2) proprietary Li batteries 5 hr (3000 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 10m (daylight), 25m (indoors), 250m (darkness).

LaserMax GEN II GREEN DOT: Price= $369.00 (C/C) Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk 0, Power= (2) Li CR123 batteries(?) 1 hour (600 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 50m (daylight), 100m (indoors), 600m (darkness).

LaserLyte Rear Sight Laser System:

The Laserlyte company miniaturized a 650-nanometer wavelength red laser and combined it with not only microcircuitry but also LED technology to build a laser sight that can replace the REAR SIGHT of your pistol. The left side of this "rear sight" houses the batteries while the right side of the sight houses the emitter and a simple on/off press switch at the rear of the sight. It is one of the smallest laser sights on the market today.
Rear Sight Laser: Price= $175.00 (S/S) Wt= 0.025kg (not a typo), Bulk 0, Power: (3) hearing aid batteries 5 hr (3000 combat round) run time, Range 7m (daylight), 15m (indoors), 100m (darkness).

Streamlight TRL-4 Flashlight/Laser Combo:

This is typical of a civilian flashlight/laser combo from the end of the first decade of the 21st Century. It is topped by a 125 Lumen LED white light combination flood/spotlight lens with a run time of 90 minutes, a range of 100 meters and a cone of light 1/5 the beam's range (ie 20 meters wide at 100 meters in range). It is waterproof to 10 meters and it can mount on a Picatinny rail. There is a remote pressure switch available as well.
TRL-4 GEN II RED DOT Flashlight/Laser Module: Price= $129.00 (C/C), Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk 0.5, Power= 1 CR123 Li battery 1.5 hrs (900 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 10m (daylight), 25m (indoors), 250m (darkness).

Viridian Universal Laser Mount:

This is a modern micro mount that can be fitted to either a Picatinny rail or the front of a pistol's trigger guard. It has an ambidextrous switch on either side of the mount or a remote pressure switch.
ULM GEN III GREEN DOT Sight: Price= $279.00 (S/S), Wt= 0.1kg, Bulk 0.2, Power= 2hrs (1200 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 100m (daylight), 250m (indoors), 1000m (darkness).

Viridian X Series Tachlight & Laser Combo:

This is another Flashlight and Laser combo. It contains an LED 224 Lumen flood/spotlight flashlight with a range of 200 meters (and a 40-meter cone) and a 90 minute run time. The laser is a GEN III Green Dot laser with a pulse/flash mode and the ability to use a remote pressure switch. It is representative of several high-end units.
X Series GEN III Flashlight/Laser Unit: Price: $409.00 (S/S), Wt= 0.25kg, Bulk= 0.5, Power= (2) CR123 batteries with 90 minute (900 combat rounds) run time, Effective Range= 100m (daylight), 250m (indoors), 1000m (darkness).

These are just a few examples of the myriad of laser sights out there today. I hope these help you and I'm sorry if I caused any problems for you by posting this "in blocks of text," but I as afraid of "timing out" (on the post time).

As always, use what you will and ignore the rest.

Swag.

[CDAT]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

Maximum Range requires the following in my game:
-The ability to SEE the target (ranges can exceed the ability to see a man sized object WITHOUT a magnified optic.
-A positive hit value at Extreme Range.
-A prone or "bench-rested" position
-An "Aim" Action (which doesn't increase the hit chance)


Remember that Max Range is shooting BEYOND most weapons' limit of "practical accuracy." It is for instances like the (now not so) "mythical" 1-mile sniper shot.

So what would you call a standing shot with iron sights on a target at 1000 meters? Years ago when I was on the military rifle team we had several of the guys who could do it every time, all day long. Now I also understand that not everyone could/can do it, I never could.

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by CDAT

So what would you call a standing shot with iron sights on a target at 1000 meters? Years ago when I was on the military rifle team we had several of the guys who could do it every time, all day long. Now I also understand that not everyone could/can do it, I never could.

I too have seen the standing 1000 meter shot and have participated in IHMSA matches (International Handgun Metalic Silhouette Shooter's Association) shooting a pistol at a ram silhouette at 200 meters and I did not dismiss the "standing shot." You will notice that "bench-rested" is in quotes. This is because I allow a player to be considered "bench-rested" IF he uses the Brace Action I specify in my initiative (see my post in Adm.Lee's Thread "Thinking About Initiative" for the Brace Action) AND has either "tied into his sling" (using his sling for isometric tension) or is holding his pistol in two hands, he is considered to be "bench-resting." Since none of that can be done on a "Snap Shot," I list the Chance To Hit as NOT ALLOWED to force the player to expend the time it would take to assume a solid firing position and aim (remember that MY initiative runs on Seconds Expended NOT Actions Per Round).

I apologize for any confusion with this, but, in my defense, I was trying to get the stats on my laser sights up before the forum timed my post out.
If I get the local driving job I applied for, I am going to get myself some computer training so I can do those cool Uploads of my work like the rest of the forum guys do. I'm tired of having a "kindergarten level" of computer skill.