Equipment changes towards 2000 (Brit focused)

[Cypher]

As I've been considering a new game for a party of British characters set in Africa, I've been wondering what changes to issue kit would have been seen leading up to/through the Twilight War.

Using the v2.2 timeline, we can say the SA80 would be the main infantry weapon. It's pretty much universally acknowledged the initial version was, to be polite, rubbish. The issues weren't quickly rectified after the 1991 Gulf War, with SA80A2 not coming into service until the first major overhaul in the early 2000's.

Now accepting that this was a huge piece of work to rebuild all the individual weapons, I can see it being unlikely this would have happened in the T2k timeline.

What about other individual changes though, the introduction of the AG36 and the M249 (early 2000's), acquired as part of Urgent Operational Requirements for operations in Iraq and Afghanistan? If Options for Change hadn't slashed the military budget in the early 90's (and I can't remember if its referred to in the books at all) and in the face of increasing Soviet threat, would gaps in capability have been identified and these acquisitions have happened earlier, or would the FN Mag (GPMG) have been issued more widely in it's place?

I think we can be certain that vehicles like Coyote, Mastiff etc would never have been acquired or existed as the need didn't exist before Iraq/Afghanistan, but what of other like the (in)famous Sergeant York, if it looked like tensions were ramping up would this have been dusted off and put into service (iirc by the time it was cancelled most of the kinks had been worked out and it could have functioned at least acceptably enough)?

Just some keyworker working at home musings...

[Legbreaker]

Fairly sure the AG36 and minimi would not have been issued to UK troops - for one the supplying countries would have wanted everything they could get their hands on for themselves.
The L85 probably would have been improved on a somewhat quicker time scale that IRL, especially given it's unlikely military spending would have been slashed (at least not to the level it was).
Very unlikely new vehicles and equipment would be introduced unless they were locally designed and produced (for the same reasons the AG36 wouldn't have been available), with more emphasis placed on improving what they already had.

We know that military equipment was in short supply from the numerous references to military units receiving old, even obsolete vehicles as replacements, and some units raised a little later in the war lacking support weaponry much heavier than mortars. The background material also states it was a "come as you are" war, at least for the first year or so (by which time you've got nukes falling from the sky anyway).

[Cypher]

Thanks Legbreaker!

That's more or less what I had thought but consensus is as good as canon where there are gaps imo 😁

I might give them an extra gimpy then instead of a Minimi, and go and dig out some info on older vehicles that may have either been dug out of mothballs or built in UK factories before things got too bad.

[Legbreaker]

Why not issue older equipment such as Brens and L1A1's? Give them to support and reserve/TA units though and let the professional fighting troops have the newer stuff.
The Bren was still in service in the British army until the 1990s anyway, re-chambered some decades earlier to the 7.62 x 51mm (7.62N) cartridge.
You could probably expect to see anything still in service during the 80's pulled out of storage and reissued on a fairly large scale. Older stuff may also be issued, but less often and almost certainly to 3rd or even 4th line troops.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/List_of_fi...h_Armed_Forces

[StainlessSteelCynic]

It's also entirely possible that a number of vehicles that were cancelled or didn't go into production etc. etc. due to the "peace dividend" of the ending of the Cold War, would have entered British service. Certain vehicles types may have been ordered in greater numbers than they were in real life.

For example, the AT-105 Saxon Wheeled APC had the following variants designed for it but I believe some variants were only procured in small numbers. If the Cold War had continued, it's entirely possible they would have been acquired in greater numbers: -
APC,
Internal Security Vehicle,
Ambulance,
Armoured Command Vehicle,
81mm Mortar Carrier,
Armoured Recovery Vehicle
and a version with a turret for 1 or 2 machine guns
The Saxon was in no way meant as a frontline APC, it was meant as a protected vehicle to transport personnel & supplies to the frontline and as such has been described by some wags as a "4 Tonner in a tin".

The CVR(T) family has some extra vehicles planned such as the various permutations of the Stormer APC.
The Warrior also had a number of proposed variants that may have entered service if the Cold War hadn't ended.

The following archived link has some a small amount of info on some of the CVR(T) and Warrior vehicles
https://web.archive.org/web/20190511.../the-eighties/

[Olefin]

You could also add older equipment that was either dragged out of museums or that was in civilian hands - i.e. Ferrets that would have been sold to civilians

can see them raiding the Tank Museum near Bovington and grabbing the Ferret that is there - after all all they need to do to arm it is mount a machine gun

or for that matter older trucks and Jeeps that are sitting at movie production lots

and there is a precedence - during WWII after so much equipment was lost at Dunkirk they literally raided museums to find anything that they could still use - assume it would be the same for the UK by late 98 after the nuclear strikes finished off any major war production

[Ewan]

You might even see the odd Centurion popping up.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Olefin

You could also add older equipment that was either dragged out of museums or that was in civilian hands - i.e. Ferrets that would have been sold to civilians

If the military wasn't doing it (or were slow off the starting block) the various militias certainly would! An old tank, even without working weapons or ammo, is still one hell of an asset against opponents without heavy weapons. You may have to stick your head out the hatch with the old double barrel 12 gauge, or perhaps don't even bother with that! 50 odd tonnes of moving metal brooks no argument!

[mpipes]

Originally Posted by Olefin

You could also add older equipment that was either dragged out of museums or that was in civilian hands - i.e. Ferrets that would have been sold to civilians

can see them raiding the Tank Museum near Bovington and grabbing the Ferret that is there - after all all they need to do to arm it is mount a machine gun

or for that matter older trucks and Jeeps that are sitting at movie production lots

and there is a precedence - during WWII after so much equipment was lost at Dunkirk they literally raided museums to find anything that they could still use - assume it would be the same for the UK by late 98 after the nuclear strikes finished off any major war production

In my gun collection, I have a 1906 1st Issue Navy Luger with British proofs, a British military finish, and apparent weapon issue number also applied. It was evidently issued out in WWII after Dunkirk by the UK, and even has a replaced bolt and other evidence of damage typical of use of "hot" 9mm SMG ammo issued by the British for use in the STEN.