4e What happened to the rest of the world?

[Heffe]

Has anyone managed to put together a possible (and cohesive) world-wide 4e timeline yet?

I've asked twice now on the forums about whether FL plans to detail out the rest of the world (in terms of nuke strike locations, military unit cohesion, nation-state impacts, etc.), and both times FL has been pretty cagey in their responses. Their most recent response was this:

In the upcoming expansions, they will most likely focus (when it comes to setting) on things connected to operation reset like Poland and Sweden.

Which leaves just an entire world with no description of what's going on. The Ref manual talks about a few key countries, but largely the world is left for Refs to create as they see fit. So I'm curious to see if anyone has put together a cohesive timeline of events happening elsewhere around the globe (even if it disrupts FL's official timeline).

Thanks!

[unipus]

No, but it does seem clear that implied background is sort of part of their plan. I don't have an issue with that, exactly. It works better in other genres, but it's still not a terrible move (especially after the reaction their timeline got). It frees up others to answer the questions as they'd like. I had to do so for Poland and it was more satisfying and worked better for me.

[Heffe]

Well, if it's not been done by the community yet, is there any interest amongst users of this forum to build a default timeline for the community? I'd love to help put it together and can PM any efforts (on top of contributing ideas/writing), but this doesn't seem like the kind of project to take on alone, especially not when there's so much valuable insight from the community members here. If anyone is interested in working on something like that (or even leading the endeavor - I'm open to whatever), let me know?

Remember that movie where the first 90 minutes is a recap about everything that happens all over the globe, then the last 30 minutes is about stuff that happens to a group of 4-8 dudes who don't have enough fuel/resources/etc. to get a days drive away from their starting location?

Yeah, me either...

[Raellus]

I've been tinkering a bit since the box set arrived.

China: ally or adversary of the USSR?

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[unipus]

I'd be inclined to say... neither? China's approach to soft power has worked out pretty well for them and I'd definitely see them trying to stay out of WW3. If they managed to pull that off, then to some extent they are the only superpower on Earth now. Counterargument: they would never develop to that level since they too would face a pretty complete economic collapse, along with possible food production problems, and the odd bit of fallout. I could see them trying to keep the good times rolling and becoming a broken regional empire with a series of unending wars across SE Asia.

[Ursus Maior]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I've been tinkering a bit since the box set arrived.

China: ally or adversary of the USSR?

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I have them as a cautious ally of the USSR after the Taiwan Street Crisis of the Mid-Nineties. Basically a "we got a common enemy in the US", after war almost went hot over Taiwan. This might include an actual attack of some sorts on a USN carrier in 1996, putting it out of action for several months, probably USS Independence, but USS Nimitz would hurt more, obviously.

The latter scenario, a near-loss of a carrier, would make the US pivot to Asia at least temporarily and probably end after an attack of retribution by US Navy aircraft and ship/sub launched cruise missiles on major naval installations, e. g. Hudong–Zhonghua Shipbuilding at Shanghai. Zhonghua yards were building amphibious landings ships at the time, so this would set back any build-up in PLAN invasion forces.

After that, cooler heads could prevail, as both sides lick their wounds, but China buys even more hardware from the USSR than it did historically from the Russians. The Chinese, of course, don't want to grow to attached to a resurgent, revisionist USSR, but play along for a year or so. Once the balloon goes up in Europe, China pulls the plug on most forms of cooperation, except economical ties, which remain largely intact despite pressure by Western nations.

It might be an interesting twist that this pressure ultimately could lead to China switching sides. Since it's the USSR that starts the nuclear spiral in 4E, trying to limit NATO breakthroughs in the European, mostly Polish, front, China would immediately step away from any remains of an alliance. Open condemnation would be the only thing to get NATO's bullseye from Beijing, Shanghai and Dalian. A possible economical alliance in 1998 between the West and China might keep parts of the West alive with China delivering food and basic industrial goods.

Of course, this might draw the ire of Moscow, leading to a few nukes flying towards China as well.

One big mystery I haven't solved in that thread of thinking is Hong Kong, though. Would the British handover the city state on 1 July 1997, if the war broke out just before and China has become an obvious ally of the USSR? We know US and Soviet forces clash for the first time in Western Poland (Poznan) on 6 June 1997, but no date is given for the actual invasion of Poland. Personally, I'd reason that Poland can hardly defend itself against the USSR for more than two weeks. So, if the attack came in late May, China has about two weeks to turn its back on the USSR, before the US and other NATO members start attacking Soviet forces and China gets into the cross-hairs as well.

[Silent Hunter UK]

Originally Posted by unipus

No, but it does seem clear that implied background is sort of part of their plan. I don't have an issue with that, exactly. It works better in other genres, but it's still not a terrible move (especially after the reaction their timeline got). It frees up others to answer the questions as they'd like. I had to do so for Poland and it was more satisfying and worked better for me.

PCs wouldn't know anyway. It's not like they could go on Facebook and find out.

[Raellus]

Of course, PCs wouldn't know everything that happened leading up to their respective then-and-now, and they probably don't need to. That said, they'd certainly be privy to at least some background information.

To draw a historical example, a grunt on Okinawa in early 1945 wouldn't know what went on during the Tehran Conference, or in the Wolf's Lair on the eve of the Kursk offensive, or the results of a US daytime strategic bombing raid on city x date y, but he would know the broad strokes of the war- Nazi invasion of Poland, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, and probably something of Guadalcanal, Midway, the invasion of Sicily and Italy, and D-Day in the ETO. At the very least, I think most players want to know how their PC got into the game world- when and why did they volunteer, for example, and did they fight elsewhere prior to the campaign start date.

Also, "historical" background info can help players come up with PC concepts that they might not otherwise. For example, I've had Australian players want to play Australian PCs. They were able to find a bit in the v1 timeline that would justify Aussie military personnel being in Poland, c.2000. It also helps with justifying a PC having certain skills, like picking up a language not spoken in the AO or home country.

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[Heffe]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Of course, PCs wouldn't know everything that happened leading up to their respective then-and-now, and they probably don't need to. That said, they'd certainly be privy to at least some background information.
[snip]
At the very least, I think most players want to know how their PC got into the game world- when and why did they volunteer, for example, and did they fight elsewhere prior to the campaign start date.

Also, "historical" background info can help players come up with PC concepts that they might not otherwise. For example, I've had Australian players want to play Australian PCs. They were able to find a bit in the v1 timeline that would justify Aussie military personnel being in Poland, c.2000. It also helps with justifying a PC having certain skills, like picking up a language not spoken in the AO or home country.
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This, exactly. I'm not looking to determine every bit of minutia about every nation on the planet. Even just a high level understanding of what's going on in various regions would be hugely helpful. i.e. How do things look in the Middle East? The Far East? What does South America look like? How about Africa? Having those, as Rae calls them, broad strokes, would potentially make the lives of every Ref a lot easier when they're put in a position to answer player questions. It would allow for faster off-the-cuff responses and less planning/legwork for Refs that are just looking to run an adventure.

[Raellus]

I can't remember why the Soviets invade Iran in v1. I don't think either superpower needs to start the war in the Middle East, but I can see both getting drawn into regional conflict eventually.

In 4e, the Gulf War happens. So, one could posit that Iraq is so destabilized by sanctions and periodic punitive air strikes that Saddam loses his grip on power. Sectarian and ethnic insurgencies flare up. Perhaps he cracks down on the local Shia. Iran steps in to protect their co-religionists. Saudi Arabia isn't about to let Iran take effective control of neighboring Iraq. The "Great Powers" of the region, Shiite Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia, both want their respective preferred sect to take power in Iraq to tip the balance of power in the region in their favor, so they launch into a proxy war there. It's spirals out of control, until both nations send large conventional forces to duke it out in Iraq. Turkey teams up with Saudi Arabia and Syria sides with Iran.

At that point, things start to get messier. Oil shipments to the West are disrupted by the fighting in the region. The US decides to intervene militarily. The Soviets aren't about to let the US win the upper hand in the Middle East, so they send forces to the Middle East.

So, for a while at least, it's:
Saudi Arabia, Turkey & the USA v. Iran, Syria, and the USSR

OR, before the superpowers intervene in the Middle East, things get really nuts when Israel, fearing Iranian victory in Iraq, decides to nuke strategic military targets in Iran...

As we saw in '91, Israel getting involved can potentially rally Muslim nations, regardless of sect, to join forces against the common foe.

Thoughts?

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[The Zappster]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...r-23046423.amp

Not into 4th Ed myself but this seems like a fitting place for this. From the website of my local newspaper.

[Ewan]

Originally Posted by The Zappster

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...r-23046423.amp

Not into 4th Ed myself but this seems like a fitting place for this. From the website of my local newspaper.

Excellent, thank you

[kcdusk]

I'm quietly impressed by V4. I hope to share my thoughts and first few days gaming soon.

I've done what i normally do. I'm running a solo game, set in wherever the current hotspot is. This latest one is set in present day Ukraine.

I'm running my PC across the border into Ukraine, under a paper thin cover as being a journalist. I've met my first arranged contact on the ground, yada yada, stuff happened, and a few die rolls later I'm on foot heading east.

I've got a Woods encounter then a hills encounter to be played out. My game has been a mixture of two set pieces i thought would be good to play through some initial rules. And random encounters that i've been able to tie into the direction of the game. A bit of a story is developing.

I know one PC isn't going to impact the world in a big way. My hope is to play though some of the different rules, do some reconasonce, call in some off board artillery (or maybe mortar fire), generally be a nuisance, live off the land and make it back out. I'm using actual weather happening at the moment to impact my game world. We'll see how things go.

[kcdusk]

Originally Posted by kcdusk

I'm quietly impressed by V4. I hope to share my thoughts and first few days gaming soon.

I've done what i normally do. I'm running a solo game, set in wherever the current hotspot is. This latest one is set in present day Ukraine.

I'm running my PC across the border into Ukraine, under a paper thin cover as being a journalist. I've met my first arranged contact on the ground, yada yada, stuff happened, and a few die rolls later I'm on foot heading east.

I've got a Woods encounter then a hills encounter to be played out. My game has been a mixture of two set pieces i thought would be good to play through some initial rules. And random encounters that i've been able to tie into the direction of the game. A bit of a story is developing.

I know one PC isn't going to impact the world in a big way. My hope is to play though some of the different rules, do some reconasonce, call in some off board artillery (or maybe mortar fire), generally be a nuisance, live off the land and make it back out. I'm using actual weather happening at the moment to impact my game world. We'll see how things go.

My little introductory solo adventure is progressing slowly but well. My PC is making his way across Ukraine towards the Soviet border, and its only over night my story arc has come a bit clearer.

Very sad to read about the Ukraine invasion. I have melancholy feelings about Russian forces taking Chernobyl. But, in my story line my PC is now making his way to Chernobyl. In my story the timeline is 2 weeks behind current day. I like Chernobyl as a location. I'm not sure what "happens" when my PC gets there, but it feels like worlds colliding!