Dogs

[kato13]

kcdusk 11-01-2005, 06:09 PM Does anyone have any rules/stats about dogs in T2K? Things like tracking and observation stats for example.


How do Refs role play the situation when PC's come across guard dogs or tracker dogs?

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pmulcahy 11-01-2005, 10:14 PM I have some very general stats for dogs on my site, but you're right: that would be an interesting set of rules to work up. Hmmmmm.....


I've played in a game where my player had a LRRP dog, but I don't know what rules the GM was using to make the dog work. It did work well, though, and Tiger saved our bacon on more than one occasion!

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kcdusk 11-01-2005, 10:39 PM I was thinking of keeping it farely simple.


For a tracking dog;


Observation 18

Tracking 17

Stealth 18


For a watch dog

Observation 17

Tracking 15

Stealth 5


Not sure what else you would need. Maybe some modifiers for things like having a PC/NPC crossing a stream, made it a formidable or impossible task, or add an hour to the time it takes to re-pick up the scent.

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firewalker 11-01-2005, 10:57 PM i an't realy seen much in the way of stats/rules for dog's eather. honestly most game systems kind of let me down like that. now there are some nice rules for horses in some of the old ad&d and new d20 books (a few gaming articals as well).


there were a few articals in dragon mag sevral years ago with some good info about dogs. the crunch wouldn't be of any use but, might be good at lest for ideas.

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Targan 11-02-2005, 12:27 AM I use exellent hunting/tracking rules from Harnmaster.

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ReHerakhte 11-02-2005, 02:33 AM G'Day all,

The Merc: 2000 alternate setting has the following to say about dogs (page 85). Keep in mind they are the older D10 rules: -


Guard Dogs

From time to time, the characters will encounter guard dogs, either patrol dogs with handlers or roving dogs on their own. A handler is simply a person the dog has been trained to recognize and obey. Guard dogs have the same combat statistics as regular dogs as noted in the Twilight: 2000 rules.

Patrol Dogs: These dogs have been trained to work with a handler and are primarily used as living burglar alarms. Their hearing, smell and night vision are very acute (treat guard dogs as if they had Observation: 10), and they can detect intruders better than people can. When with a handler, they will not attack unless commanded to or unless the handler is attacked. When a handler is killed or rendered unconcious, patrol dogs become roving dogs.

Roving Dogs: These dogs will approach any stranger (to them) and bark loudly. They will attack if the stranger makes a hostile motion (they are trained to recognize guns and other weapons as dangerous) or attempts to flee. They will cease the attack when the target cease to struggle and displays empty hands, at which point they will move back a couple of metres and resume growling and barking. This will continue until a handler arrives.



Still plenty of room for improvement though...

Cheers,

Kevin

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kcdusk 11-02-2005, 03:07 AM Yeah, thats sort of the effect i was after. Dogs can spot and track better than humans, sort of elite level NPC's in some sense. In fact, equiping Elite NPC's with dogs might be a good way to go ...

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DeaconR 11-02-2005, 04:40 AM Dogs can be very useful in a variety of ways. Myself and others I've known have found a well trained dog very useful in bear country, for instance. Also, bearing in mind the context of the game, even having a well trained retriever could be useful; gathering up a bird shot in rough or swampy country is not fun. With regard to my federal agency thread, some dogs are also of course used to sniff out illicit substances or items. Dogs and horses both also have a better instinct for dangerous ground ahead than humans have.

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pmulcahy 11-02-2005, 10:00 AM It also depends on the dog and his temperment and bravery. My little handicapped Shih-Tzu couldn't do more than gnaw your ankles, but he's still an alert dog with excellent hearing and a loud, piercing bark. Anya, though only about 30 pounds, is also a very alert guard dog, with excellent hearing and vision, though with her small mouth she couldn't do much damage. Winston tends to ignore most things though he has a short fuze; he's just 18 punds, however. My departed Shadow, in his prime, was simply a scary to look at (a huge 120-pound Black Lab/Great Dane mix) with a huge mouth, large, muscular black body, and massive bark or growl. (Nobody really knew he was just a big goofball and exuberantly friendly, but he scared off people trying to break into the house twice with just his bark and growling, and I do think he would have attacked if we were threatened.


Many years ago, Kona did actually attack a prowler. She was a 35-pound who-knows what, and she happendd to be outside in the back yard when the guy came in. She ran at full speed across the yard, jumped, hit him in the chest, knocked him down, and knocked the wind out of him. We heard something strange outside, and there she was standing on his chest, growling menacingly in a way I've never heard out of her before. So, it just depends on the dog.

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graebardeII 11-02-2005, 10:17 AM Dogs.. very good sauted with onions and mushrooms, or roasted over applewood.


Dogs are an asset, IF they are trained. Unmanaged dogs are a liability through and through. Dog packs are worse than coyotes or wolves in damage they will inflict on stock. Generally they are not scared off by humans as fast as the 'wild' creatures, and will kill for the fun of it, much like the humans they were around.

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firewalker 11-02-2005, 10:13 PM "Generally they are not scared off by humans as fast as the 'wild' creatures, and will kill for the fun of it, much like the humans they were around."




graebardeII that's what one of the things i was talking about, dog's that have gone feral are MEAN. for what ever reason there just not that impressed by human's mater of fact thy have a tendency to hang around human stuff. we've had some problems with wild dog packs around here when i was a kid and it was something let me tell you.


what i was wondering was how any of you guy's had handled combat against a wild dog pack? was it just the suicide charge to be mowed down, the only down side the loss of ammo and possibly braking there cover?


or were your players surrounded by an enemy the couldn't see. trying to keep a premater as low half glimpsed shapes dodged form cover to cover just weighting for somebody to leve there back open.


Or any other wildlife encounters.

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kcdusk 11-02-2005, 10:31 PM I started the thread from the point of view of having PC's being pursued by NPC's with tracker dogs, so my high Stealth PC's had something chasing them that has a very good chance of staying on their trail ... wearing them down ... never loosing the scent ... until the dog handlers are glimpsed by the PC's ... they know the NPC's using the dogs have not given up the chase, and that they (the PC's) will have to do something special to loose them.


Dogs attacking, mmm?


Wild dogs will circle the camp, waiting for PC's to sleep or a chance to sneak in and steal food, PC's may take pot shots at them to scare them off, but these dogs in my mind wouldnt present themselves as good targets so all shots would be at obscured targets.


Normal dogs gone feral might charge people, since they are not scared of them. They may then just follow the party at a safe distance and pick over scraps that are left behind when PC's move off. So, all of a sudden the PC's have picked up a shadow. Whats the point? Well, being followed by the dogs would be off-putting. After any battle, dogs may move in to savage any injured PC's who have wounded arms or legs and cannot get away or beat them off. Then they might be in trouble. Or just the dogs presence may draw enemy attention to the PC's (PC's are stealthy creaping up but the pack of dogs draw attention to themselves, and thus the PC's as well).

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firewalker 11-02-2005, 10:48 PM might be kind of hard on any snipers/ rear guards/ scouts or the guy puling the graveyard guard detail. in short any body that might from the pack's point of view be separated form the heard

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ChalkLine 11-02-2005, 11:58 PM Some fun facts I've picked up about dogs over the years.


A dog, when hearing a sound, will turn it's head towards that sound. This head angle is always correct to within 5. You can actually shoot blind this way. Dogs hear much higher in the spectrum than we do, they can easily be damaged by weapon fire and there actually earmuffs for dogs because of this.


A good dog can smell a booby trap and drag it's handler from it. An average dog's scent pallette is about a foot square and about three thousand times more sensitive than a human's. In VietNam, Australian tracker dogs (all bitsa's taken from the pound) were able to track VC patrols upwind and parallel to them, so they could track them while not even being on their back path, and the dog was aware of where the scent was laid and could signal to it's handler the offset they were travelling on, allowing accurate flank attacks that the VC had no way of predicting.


Dog's have colour vision, but it's not very good (I've heard it described as 'muddy'), still some 'sight' breeds have very sharp vision that is better at distance than a human's.


Dogs can drag roughly their own body weight times two, across a smooth surface. Police dogs have dragged their handlers under cover when they have been injured. Dogs can tow far heavier floating weights in the water.

If a dog's handler is injured, it may well become stressed and savage, it is best to not appear a threat by hunching over and making soft mewling sounds - as the dog may attack any percieved threat.


Dogs attack by many methods. From behind they will attempt to tear out calf muscles so the victim cannot escape. From the front they will either knock down a victim with a strong spring (dogs can generate more force on a jump comparatively than a human) and then try and tear at the throat, or tear at the throat if the victim does not appear overly mobile/aggressive. Dogs tend to bite at the extremities if the victim is combatitive, this keeps the dog away from weapons and allows them to wear down a victim. In all cases, a throat attack is usually the method a dog goes for if it wants 'a quick take-out'.


Dogs are allergic to asperin, grapes and caffiene. A wounded dog is dangerous to anyone, including their handler. A wounded dog should have it's muzzle secured with a soft bandage, a long sock will do, secured under the jaw. Dogs go into shock easily, they're usually smaller than us and their limbs are quite delicate comparatively. A veterinarian can do procedures that are illegal on humans, I've *seen* one do open heart massage on a shocked dog and revive it, so a vet may well be able to save a dog more often than you'd otherwise think.


Dogs use a different set of senses than we do, when playing them you should try and remember this. Usually a dog scouting or preparing to attack stays out of sight, making them difficult to target with a line of sight weapon. A dog defending or 'dominance' attacking growls to lower morale (or it's canine equivalent), a cool roll may be required.

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Targan 11-03-2005, 12:04 AM Wild dogs in the Poland part of my campaign set off trip flares afew times, and that kept the players on edge. Both in wilderness and urban parts of my campaign dogs have sparked wild goose chases and false alarms because they represent a decent sized heat source and the PCs usually have working thermal imagers assigned to whoever is on guard. And there were a few instances of quite large feral dog packs roaming around in NYC which were a problem only in that the PCs did not want to start shooting because that would give away their positions, but were very concerned that the pack might maker a concerted attack on them if they did not cap a few. In the combat system I use, characters receive an entanglement penalty if any part of their body becomes entangled with something (duh!) or if someone or something has a hold of part of them. So if it gets to the point of HTH combat, a character's combat abilities can be hampered by severe negatives if there is a dog hanging on to each leg while another goes for the throat. It never did get to that point in my campaign with any of the PCs, but one character did have a very frightening encounter in a basement with a bear which was coming out of hibernation.

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kcdusk 11-03-2005, 03:29 AM I've started up similar threads on other sites and the discussion has really gone no where. But you read some of these replies, and mate, puts dogs in a different light doesnt it?


I knew there was potential there but there have been some great ideas here guys.

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graebardeII 11-03-2005, 09:53 AM Dog encounters in some campaigns I played were not that uncommon really. Had a couple of characters that were out hunting, and attacked by a pack of about a dozen medium sized dogs as the daylight faded. Yes it was the circle and dodge, with each circle getting a bit closer. It was pretty wooded area, and the dogs did manage to get close, however superior firepower prevailed, the characters standing literally back to back, before the dogs withdrew leaving five mortally wounded/dead. The characters returned to camp with about 50kg of dog meat, and a horror story from hell. The meat, while suspect, was well cooked before eating, as that was the first meat/food the party had access to in several days.


Other animal encounters, in the same campaign I think.. it was on going for a couple of years, and been a quarter century ago.. caused my character to carry unusual scars on his shoulder for the rest of the campaign. What caused the scars? The party found a cave to take refuge in, however the dark recesses did not reveal the presence of the Bengal tiger, belonging to a local warlord. The tiger attacked one of the party as it tried to escape the cave. My character went to his companions aid. In the ensuing melee, which ended after I emptied the 9mm into the chest cavity at point-blank, left my companion so badly mauled he died of his wounds, and myself with claw marks on the left shoulder, that seemed to take forever to heal. An end result almost got us killed by the warlord when he discovered his 'pet' had been killed. Ah yes, the evil GM we played under.. we were always in the shit.

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firewalker 11-03-2005, 10:33 AM i like that, your gun's made you a match for the dog's. well if you can managed to get a clear shot at them any way. the scarcity of food even makes for a good explanation for there persistence.


i may be wrong but wasn't there a adventure in challenge one time that involved a breading pare of tigers (escaped for ether a zoo or a wildlife park) living in the Florida everglades?


the point is to rember that were a given animal's abilities exceed a man's thy do it by an exxxtremly wide margin.

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