From Archive: G11

[kato13]

kcdusk 12-03-2005, 03:57 AM In v1.0 i complained the G11 SMG was overpowered, where most SMG/BR/AR had ROF of 3 (each 1 representing a burst of 3 or so bullets) the G11 was a 5!


I was told this is becasue the G11 ROF is so high in real life. I lived with it.


Now in v2.2, the G11 has a ROF of 3 - bullets not bursts - whereas most other SMG have 4 or 5. Its now the G11 that is slow (underpowered).


Tell me, did the G11 slow down or did other guns speed up :-)


No, really, why has the G11 gone from being overpowered to run of the mill, & more importantly which one is right? The G11 isnt head and shoulders above the others now.

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ChalkLine 12-03-2005, 04:34 AM The G11 is an amazing firearm, it's an assault rifle that in true German style addresses the problems of combat in ways not done before. One of the requirements for the weapon was it had to put three rounds in a very tight group, too tight for a conventional round to achieve because HK worked out that it needed a rate of 2000 rpm, all three bullets must leave the barrel before the recoil impulse is felt! Normal ammo will cook off at this fire rate (and you can't get rid of the brass fast enough), so HK went with caseless.


Now you can see what has happened, you can get off an enormous amount of accurate three round bursts, which is the 5 x 3 rounds in v1.0, but it's still only a 3 round burst which is how v2.0 and v2.2 handled it.


However, and this seems to have been missed by the T2K designers, the weapon can also fire at a more normal 600 rpm for automatic fire, and it's superior balance and less felt recoil should allow you to keep more rounds on target here.

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Targan 12-03-2005, 07:58 AM Maybe you could treat the G11's three rnd burst as a single shot for to-hit purposes, with all three rounds hitting at short range, 1d2+1 hitting at medium, 1d2 hitting at long range and one round hitting at extreme.

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Badbru 12-03-2005, 09:34 AM Just picking out something you posted KC that I'm not sure you're clear on, forgive me if you are, all weapons that fire bursts can fire up to FIVE bursts per turn. The number in the ROF column in the weapon descriptions tell you how many bullets are fired in each burst.

Thus G11 up to Five bursts of three bullets each

M249SAW up to FIVE bursts of ten bullets each.

This is because each combat turn is FIVE seconds in duration.

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Lindgaard 12-03-2005, 09:42 AM Hello 'KC

Please note that the G11's recoil is : ss 2 brst 3


that allows a pc to fire a lot of shots/bursts without penalties


regards

Lindgaard

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kcdusk 12-03-2005, 01:24 PM Yep, was clear on that thanks badbru.


G11 5*3 = 15 bullets


AKM 5*5 = 25 bullets


The thread was just about how in v1.0 the G11 fires comparitively more bullets than in 2.2 verse other weapons.

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[Legbreaker]

Anyone have any idea how much a magazine (empty) and individual rounds weigh? Best I can find is the projectile at 3.25 grams and weapon plus 100 rounds 700 grams more than unloaded.

[Legbreaker]

Better give this query a bump now it's been shifted from the archive - Thanks Targan! :P

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Anyone have any idea how much a magazine (empty) and individual rounds weigh? Best I can find is the projectile at 3.25 grams and weapon plus 100 rounds 700 grams more than unloaded.

Future Weapons lists it as 0.17 lb (0.08 kg) for an unloaded magazine, 0.75 lb (0.34 kg) for a loaded magazine with 50 rounds... so ~5.25 grams per round of loose ammo.

- C.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

This is what one of my friends did to stat out the G11 and AN94
I'm basically just quoting him here...

"Full-auto ROF:5, Recoil- SS:2, Brst:4, Range:50
3-rd Burst ROF:3, Recoil- Brst:2, Range:55
With the AN-94, the 2-rd burst Recoil should probably be Brst:1, Range:+5
For me, that gives enough game difference to reflect the real world improvement of such a high ROF without making the weapon the ultimate BFG"

[Legbreaker]

I was just thinking about the G11 and wondered if anyone knows if the designers ever thought about marrying it to a grenade launcher of some type?
It seems to be the way of the future for most weapon systems so it would be reasonable to expect it to happen if the G11 had been issued as planned. My guess is though that a dedicated GL wouldn't have happened until at least the very late 90's, perhaps not even until today.

If one was in the pipeline, would it have been a standard 40mm or would they have tinkered with the idea a bit and gone with something else such as 25mm, 37mm or even developed some type of caseless?

Would use of rifle grenades, perhaps of the BTU variety, have been contemplated?

Thoughts?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Would use of rifle grenades, perhaps of the BTU variety, have been contemplated?

I'm a big fan of BTU grenades in the T2K universe but I think the 4.7mm round would be a bit under-powered for BTU grenades. The round relies on high velocity combined with small diameter; not much muzzle energy to work with. I could be wrong though. 5.56mm isn't much more powerful and it seems to work fine for BTU grenades.

I completely agree that had the G11 gone into large scale production there would have been a GL program alongside it. I would bet on a 40mm system.