Molle gear vs Old Y or H harness with belt and ruck gear.

[Abbott Shaull]

Okay, I have a question for some of the people who have been in the US military recently. When I was in the military MOLLE gear was still in testing. I know what I have read about the early version that were in testing, it was suppose to be superior to the old Y and H harness and belt set up. With the use of vest to disperse equipment, what I have seen of the various type of vest out there in the media looks as the ammo pouches are smaller and more disperse than the old ones that held 3 M-16 clips.

Also with this new system the old ruck and large ruck were suppose to be replace with new packs. With the old set up you had one large pack as well as butt-pack. With the new system the large pack was suppose to have main pack, and smaller detachable pack as well allow to keep the butt-pack.

Just wonder primarily about the packs and other details. If you don't want to post on the board, the feel free to use the email.

Thanks in advance.

Abbott

[HorseSoldier]

The MOLLE pouches are a big improvement. The ruck system is a POS, in my opinion.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

The MOLLE pouches are a big improvement. The ruck system is a POS, in my opinion.

I was issued the old Y harness system back in the early 90s. I remember we'd scrounge around looking for the older H harness system, as it was much more comfortable. Never played with MOLLE gear, though.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah, when I was in they had Y and H harnesses mixed in. I was issued the Y harness, but I could see where the H harness would work.

The thing that surprises me about the Molle system was it like 1980 something when they were supposedly testing in various units including some sub-units of the 1st Cavalry. I quite surprise it took until 9-11 for it be so widely issue. Especially since many Special Operation units seemed to love and improve upon the system.

It one of the reason of why as GM, I didn't mind if someone wanted to use this system over regular LBE since, it was testing and to throw a wammy into the party.

[waiting4something]

Originally Posted by HorseSoldier

The MOLLE pouches are a big improvement. The ruck system is a POS, in my opinion.

I agree with that. I liked the MOLLE system as long as you didn't have a M203set up. They had no room from 40mm shells. I had to put my magazine pouches on the last loops on the bottom just to have room for the 40mm pouches and it still only carried like 7 or 8 40mm shells. I usually ended up wearing the old school grenadier vest over the MOLLE vest instead, and that solved the probelm. My last year in I switched to a different battalion that gave more leeway on gear, so I bought the old school Y harness since I still had the M203. I found it was just a pain in the ass and liked to get tangled up. I never got to liking it. The MOLLE and LBE vest where way better as a M16 gunner only. Now the MOLLE pack, that just sucked. Those plastic frames broke on a few guys packs and they never felt right. I bought a large ALICE pack when I had the chance and liked it a lot better. Lots of guys always wanted to buy it off me. I must have bought one of the few ones the PX had, so I gave it to someone when I got out.

[Abbott Shaull]

Ah thanks. Now I understand why it took 15-20 years to get it to the troops in general and why Special Forces and Rangers had modified the system heavily since it first came out. The pack for the MOLLE seems to be one downside that probably help keep the system from distribution Army and Marine Corps wide for several reason. Then again looking at LBE with H or Y harness, pistol belt, and the units flavor of rucksack with metal frame hadn't change much except for improvements with the ruck and frame over the years. Lot of it not much different with the exception of the material pieces were made out of over a couple generation of troops.

Yeah being a 203 gunner with the old equipment it was one of the perks with the vest, and with the MOLLE system it seemed too busy for the M203 gunner. I also know one of the real world reason why they didn't roll out the MOLLE system before 9-11 was the issue that everyone in unit knew where certain items would be on the old LBEs. Medical pouch, flash light, ammo pouches were fairly standard locations where with the there was the worry with the MOLLE troops would move stuff around to where they were comfortable.

[jester]

We also forget the issue of budget, which would have also hampered the aquisition of new items durring the 90s when alot of developement especialy for smaller items was just not there.

[HorseSoldier]

For T2K purposes it's probably also worth remembering that the early version of the Molle ruck used some weird single point attachment to the LBV at the waist, instead of a conventional waist belt (so the weight of the ruck was partially carried on your pistol belt/LBV instead). That set up apparently caused a bunch of Marines lower back injuries during initial fielding (besides lacking durability in the frame), and made use of the MOLLE Fighting Load Carrier obligatory, limiting alternate LBE options like Rhodesian rigs and such. I'm not sure how that rucksack set up was supposed to work with IBA or other body armor options, either, though it may not have been contemplated during R&D that far back.