Company Organization

[kalos72]

Two questions bout both pre-IBCT and IBCT formations...

1) Most descriptions have an infantry company with 60mm and 120mm mortars, where are the 60mm's?

2) Do you ever change the number of platoons depending on the type of company? Meaning a mech company is much stronger then a normal infantry company, do you ever bump the number of infantry platoons to compensate?

[Webstral]

Mortars are controlled by the company headquarters, though like any artillery asset they can be on-call for lower echelons. One does not typically find 120mm mortars at the company level. The 120mm mortar is a heavy mortar usually assigned to heavy battalions. However, it's certainly possible that in Twilight: 2000 one could find any number of arrangements, including slicing one or more medium (81mm) or heavy (120mm) mortars to an infantry company for specific purposes.

Webstral

[copeab]

Originally Posted by kalos72

1) Most descriptions have an infantry company with 60mm and 120mm mortars, where are the 60mm's?

Like Web said, the 120mm isn't a company level weapon, but as mortars are tougher than people, a company in 2000 will tend to have heavier heavy weapons than in 1996, unless it has to move fast.

The 60mm mortars are, I believe, part of the company's weapon platoon, or in their own mortar section.

2) Do you ever change the number of platoons depending on the type of company? Meaning a mech company is much stronger then a normal infantry company, do you ever bump the number of infantry platoons to compensate?

Normally, no. The number of squads iin a platoon and platoons in a company stays pretty constant. The number of men in a squad can vary, however, and the composition of a heavy weapon section and company can also vary.

[Legbreaker]

Of course other nationalities involved in the War have completely different makeups with their mortars (often 81mm) a battalion asset with an FO or trained soldier (somebody with a primary role as an infantryman, driver, clerk, even the cook) able to put in requests for fire support.

In a strictly T2K environment, just about any organisation, or disorganisation for that matter, is possible for any nationality.

[kalos72]

I am referring more so to the newer BCT structure I guess, but I am alos not sure how the previous organization would work.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-21-11/c01.htm

That shows the 2 120's with the company...it says there are 60's in there some where but I dont see them.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by kalos72

I am referring more so to the newer BCT structure I guess, but I am alos not sure how the previous organization would work.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-21-11/c01.htm

That shows the 2 120's with the company...it says there are 60's in there some where but I dont see them.

Ah. It looks like the 120mm mortar carriers *also* carry a 60mm mortar for dismount use, but only one crew for both. This is how 1-10a reads to me.

[kalos72]

Ack I missed that, thanks. However that does sound like a crappy system....

[HorseSoldier]

Makes sense. The SBCTs are influenced by US armored cavalry organization, which always placed a higher premium on self-contained, combined arms company level units (the SBCTs just do it in an infantry-centric way). Armored cav troops have had a pair of heavy mortars per troop for quite some time (and had 81mm mortars organic to the individual cavalry platoons under earlier MTOEs).

[Eddie]

To expand on what has already been said:

1) 120mm Mortars are only a company asset in SBCTs, something not really relevant in T2K.

2) This is where I'll disagree with copeab a little and say that Company organizations actually do shift quite a bit. Swapping a Mech Infantry Platoon for an Armor Platoon in a Heavy Brigade is pretty common, which leaves the Armor Company now possessing a Mech Infantry Platoon. My 54-man, Anti-Armor Company traded off two platoons and received two Rifle Platoons turning us into a Rifle Company during our entire deployment to Iraq. In 1996, my platoon was attached to another Company and that whole Company was then attached to another Battalion. When this happens it's called being given OPerational CONtrol (OPCONd) to another unit. It's actually pretty common and is the technical term for what Paul was discussing in some other thread about the BCT makeups during OIF and Desert Storm.

[Eddie]

I should note that after we got those other two platoons our strength shifted from 54 strong to 120+ strong.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I should note that after we got those other two platoons our strength shifted from 54 strong to 120+ strong.

I'll admit I'm more familiar with WWII formations.

[Webstral]

Somewhat tangential but along the lines of shifting company organizations, my light infantry company in Iraq was sliced to an armor battalion (4-64 AR). The armor battalion had two companies of tanks, two companies of mechanized infantry in M2, a cavalry troop, a company of Marines (no kidding), its organic guns, and a grab bag of other units. I have no idea how the Marines ended up in 4-64 AR, and I don't remember who they were. The cav was from 278th ACR. And then there was us, sliced off from 1-184 IN (CA ARNG), which had in turn been sliced off from 29th Brigade and given to 3rd Infantry Division. We swapped a rifle platoon to D/4-64 in return for a tank platoon. The company was then reorganized into four sections of 20-22 men, plus a somwhat reorganized headquarters section. (The mortar crews went to the line, since mortars weren't authorized for use in Baghdad, while the FOs went to the headquarters to run IO.) Each section had enough gun trucks to make it mobile for patrols or QRF, plus a tank. One tank was sent to our checkpoint, where it remained until being rotated out for PMCS. For several months, we gave up an additional section to D/4-64, resulting in an infantry company with about 75 guys in three rifle sections and a headquarters section. To say that the TO&E was elastic would be an understatement.

4-64 AR was quite large, by the way. Total strength was more than 800 in mid-2005. The battalion was, in some ways, a small brigade.

Webstral