Soviet 124th MRD

[schnickelfritz]

I am trying to flesh out the Soviet 124th MRD, part of the 4th Guards Tank Army, and a critical part of the V1 Escape From Kalisz Scenario.

In the V1 information, they have placed (3) T-80 tanks in Siearadz after the battle, of which only one can move.

Given that the 124th is listed in the Soviet Vehicle Guides as a Mobilization Only formation, does this seem realistic?

I have a hard time buying that the 124th would have been issued T-80's and probably the best they could have hoped for were T-72's. T-55's or T-62's seem a lot more realistic.

It would seem to me that the 124th probably consisted of obsolete tanks, BMP-1's (BMP-A) and BTR-60's at the time of the Battle of Kalisz. That certainly would/could explain the lopsided slaughter they suffered. At the same time, I might be tempted to issue the BRDM-1 or maybe BRDM-2 armored cars for their recce formations.

Given their low priority, I would probably assign them a few D-30 and/or D-20 towed howitzers, D-10 100mm AT guns, and 120mm mortars for their support weapons, with the mortars (due to their low cost and widespread numbers) probably outnumbering the tube artillery 2-3:1.

Any thoughts?

Having T-55's and BMP-1's (most likely without AT-3 missiles) attempting to assault a position equipped with M1A2's and dig in infantry (most likely supported by a handful of M-2 IFV) would certainly explain the failure of the counterattack and the total shattering of the 124th as a cohesive force.

Thanks-
Dave

[Raellus]

Although it does seem strange that a "mobilization only" formation would be equipped with T-80s, it's possible that the division was issued with some newly-produced MBTs prior to the TDM or that it has since been issued with rebuilds. A division doesn't necessarily end the war with the same gear it started it with. Perhaps 124th MRD "scrounged" a few broken down T-80s from another division and, after repairing them, returned them to service in its own tank unit. It's also possible that the writers couldn't tell the difference between a T-80 and an upgraded T-72 (or even T-62), both of which seem more likely fits for a third-string MRD. It's probably a matter of the writers overlooking a previously established fact (i.e. a continuity error). That being the case, I still think one can create a rationale to adequately explain the gaffe.

Also, the 124th MRD lost most of it's armor on July 17th while on road march to a flank attack by 3-70, not in frontal attacks on dug-in M1s. I think you may be confusing 124th MRD's demise with 21st MRD's attacks on the blocking postions north of Kalisz in the wee hours of July 18th.

[Abbott Shaull]

One of the things that many people don't have an easy time wrapping their heads around in the West. If a tank or vehicle falls out of road march in the Soviet Army, when it back up and running it doesn't go out and catch up with it parent unit. Like what would happen with the NATO troops. They may find themselves assigned to whatever Regiment/Battalion/Company that was near by.

So no it is doubtful they would of had these vehicles when the Division was activated, I am sure sometime during it movements with the 4th Guards Tank Army had a Regiment of T80s and during the movement they broke down. When they got them back and up and running they were attached to whatever Tank unit was nearby...lol

[Legbreaker]

Agreed. By 2000 almost anything could be found in almost any unit, even once enemy equipment.
I suppose applying a percentage likelihood to each piece of equipment could be a way to go. A T-55 for example would have say a 10% chance of being in a Cat A Soviet unit, but 85% with Mob only. A V1.0 T-90 might be the reverse.

[Abbott Shaull]

Uhm part of the reason why the 10th Soviet Guards Tank Division switch sides was due to as part of their refit was few dozen burned out T-55, among other things...

[Adm.Lee]

They were "Mobilization Only" back in 1996, this is 2000. Assuming the Sovs had tank production really rolling through 1997, I can't see why this division, or any other, didn't get the newer-tech items at some point.