FBU involvement in Africa

[Mohoender]

We have talked a lot of the French army in Europe, Quebec... but the FBU is facing a major problem under the Twilight war. It might still produce electricity, it is very likely to have a fair capability when it comes to industrial production but it faces a major supply problem.

It probably has oil for the armed forces (the use of oil should be forbidden to the civilians) exploiting limited domestic oil fields and probably stll getting oil from Camerroon/Gabon. Coal shouldn't be a problem has many closed mines will reopen. This should be true for Iron and Bauxite.

However, raw materials such as copper would be in very short supply.

As a result, I would expect the French army tro be very heavily involved in Africa to secure what access it already has (Senegal, Côte d'Ivoire, Cameroon/Gabon) but also to put its hand on ressources in countries such as Nigeria (gas and oil) and Zaire/RDC (copper and minerals).

Link must be built with South Africa and a full collaboration can be developped between both countries because of ressources in South Africa but also because access to Cape Town might be vital to maintain control over La Reunion and New Caledonia.

Tunisia has been discussed already and I still think that it might join the Union.

Morocco might be collaborating with France as well and recent events open perpectives toward Libya.

Just a number of ideas

[Rainbow Six]

Just having a quick look at some of the areas you've suggested...Katanga Province of the Democratic Republic of Congo looks interesting...according to wiki it has supplies of copper, cobalt, tin, radium, diamonds, and uranium, although extraction might be a problem - looks like you're many hundreds of kilometres from any seaports.

If French troops are in Gabon and Cameroon there's probably a fair chance they may be in Equatorial Guinea as well - substantial oil reserves were discovered there in 1996 IRL (assuming it didn't get nuked of course).

Libya is mentioned in Mediterranean Cruise...I think it may have been nuked, but can't be certain.

[Raellus]

I have French "advisors" in Kenya. I also have the French trading enough AFVs to the U.S. (for the 173rd BCT's light armored battalion which, along with the rest of the BCT, is deployed to Kenya) for a share of the fuel produced by the refineries around Mombasa. Frank Frey came up with the concept and I just added the details. He was cool with it.

[boogiedowndonovan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

I have French "advisors" in Kenya. I also have the French trading enough AFVs to the U.S. (for the 173rd BCT's light armored battalion which, along with the rest of the BCT, is deployed to Kenya) for a share of the fuel produced by the refineries around Mombasa. Frank Frey came up with the concept and I just added the details. He was cool with it.

sounds interesting, what do you have the light armored battalion equipped with? AMX-10RC?

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by boogiedowndonovan

sounds interesting, what do you have the light armored battalion equipped with? AMX-10RC?

I like the AMX-10RC but I went a different route*. Here's the pertinent section from my write-up. A much more complete write up can be found here: http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...ion+proud+lion

Originally Posted by Raellus

French Involvement

The French government wanted access to the fuel produced by the Kenyan refineries. They offered the American government French-made AFVs originally en route to its African client states in exchange for a share of the fuel produced in Kenya. The U.S., unable to adequately provide replacement vehicles for the 173rd BCT, accepted the offer. The shipment was diverted to Mombasa, arriving in early August, 2007. The 3/503 (motorized) henceforth began operations equipped with Panhard VBLs, VABs, and ERC 90 F4s.

(The 173rd BCT lost its organic vehicles [mostly HUMVEEs, FAVs, and a few LAV75A2 Ridgways] when a Soviet [or Italian] submarine sank the ship transporting them to Kenya.)

*The reason that I didn't choose the more powerful AMX-10RC is that there it currently has only 3 users (including France), none of them in Sub-Saharan Africa. The ERC 90 F4, on the other hand, has 4 African users so it seemed a more likely option.

[Cdnwolf]

I would imagine the French would have seize the oil rigs in the Gulf of St Lawrence and ones off Nova Scotia to help its fuel problems.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Raellus

*The reason that I didn't choose the more powerful AMX-10RC is that there it currently has only 3 users (including France), none of them in Sub-Saharan Africa. The ERC 90 F4, on the other hand, has 4 African users so it seemed a more likely option.

I agree with your choice except that there were only 3 African users for the ERC-90 (Côte d'Ivoire, Gabon and Tchad/Nigeria is a recent addition, post-2000). Moreover, models might not be F4 but F1 and you could have some ERC-20 "Kriss" with them. The VAB could be the six wheeled versions but there are three more possibilities for the APC: Panhard VCR, the APC version of the ACMAT VLRA and the VBRG. By the way, I would add the VLRA to the list in 4 and 6 wheeled versions.

Surplus AML-90 could be sent as well.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Just having a quick look at some of the areas you've suggested...Katanga Province of the Democratic Republic of Congo looks interesting...according to wiki it has supplies of copper, cobalt, tin, radium, diamonds, and uranium, although extraction might be a problem - looks like you're many hundreds of kilometres from any seaports.

You are right but it is already the world's main copper extraction area and all the needed equipment is already there. They'll have no problem to find the needed engineers, technicians and even workers as most had been Belgian and French. Location is indeed an issue but shouldn't be that much of a problem under T2K. The French need to secure the lane to the sea and I have no doubt that they would conduct genocides on the population trying to oppose them. The wealth of these deposits largely justifies it. Moreover, the copper is already exported (and has been for a long time) and, therefore, you'll find there all the needed transport infrastructures.

Mobutu who had been supported by US (until the 1990's) since the beginning might pose a serious threat but his army was incompetent at best.

Anyway, I just asked my cousin. If he answers my email, you'll know how the minerals are bought to the coasts. He has been working as an engineer in Kolwezi (as did his father) and his wife is from Katanga.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

You are right but it is already the world's main copper extraction area and all the needed equipment is already there. They'll have no problem to find the needed engineers, technicians and even workers as most had been Belgian and French. Location is indeed an issue but shouldn't be that much of a problem under T2K. The French need to secure the lane to the sea and I have no doubt that they would conduct genocides on the population trying to oppose them. The wealth of these deposits largely justifies it. Moreover, the copper is already exported (and has been for a long time) and, therefore, you'll find there all the needed transport infrastructures.

Mobutu who had been supported by US (until the 1990's) since the beginning might pose a serious threat but his army was incompetent at best.

Anyway, I just asked my cousin. If he answers my email, you'll know how the minerals are bought to the coasts. He has been working as an engineer in Kolwezi (as did his father) and his wife is from Katanga.

Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear there...when I said extraction, I was really meaning the part about getting the minerals from the mine to the coast.

Hopefully your cousin will be able to shed some light on how that's currently done...I for one would certainly be interested.

(As an aside, I now can't get the line about Belgians in the Congo from Billy Joel's We Didn't Start The Fire out of my head...)

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Hopefully your cousin will be able to shed some light on how that's currently done...I for one would certainly be interested.

(As an aside, I now can't get the line about Belgians in the Congo from Billy Joel's We Didn't Start The Fire out of my head...)

And you reminded me that I still had to watch the belgian movie "Lumumba" (really excellent but I don't know if there is any english copy somewhere)

My cousin answered quite quickly. Here is a translation of what he wrote:

The minerals are exploited by two means. Part of it (Cu and Co) is processed on the spot in various locations (Kolwezi, Kipushi, Fungurume...). This is done in electrical oven. Then, the metal (undergoing only partial refinement) is shaped into ingot and brought by truck to the two main harbor : Durban (South Africa) and Dar Es Salaam (Tanzania).

Interesting when it comes to the relations between the FBU and the USA. Then, help might be given to US troops in Kenya not because of oil but to secure access to he harbor. Also interesting for the relations with South Africa.

Another part of the mineral (for exemple, Uranium) is brought as such still using trucks. The mineral is, then, put in "Big Bags" and sent to either the ports or to conditioning factories in South Africa.

As a resumé: always by truck (60 tons double carrier trucks), in ingots (partial refinement) or Big Bags (non-refined).

Most of it get out of Katanga through Kasumbalesa on the border with Zambia (96 km south of Lubumbashi).

Might not be the French in Katanga but the South Africans

I could have asked him some times ago but until very recently he was working in the south of Algeria extracting oil (in what they call a life base) and was out of reach. He just quit his job because he considered to have had enough with revolutions and uprisings. Fair enough when you consider that he had been several times in the RDC (Kolwezi...), Chad (When France and the CIA had a small issue with an obscure Colonel Khadaffy), Haute-Volta (the day prior to it being renamed Burkina Faso), Haiti (at the time of Baby Doc fall)...

My uncle and aunt lived in 35 African countries and went through 32 wars and revolutions. Each time they arrived somewhere we used to bet on how long the regime would last. Now, they have been residing in France for two years .

[Legbreaker]

Which part of Africa are the Cubans involved in? I can't remember what is said in Gateway to the Spanish Main...
This could throw a bit of a spanner in the works....

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

And you reminded me that I still had to watch the belgian movie "Lumumba" (really excellent but I don't know if there is any english copy somewhere)

My cousin answered quite quickly. Here is a translation of what he wrote:

The minerals are exploited by two means. Part of it (Cu and Co) is processed on the spot in various locations (Kolwezi, Kipushi, Fungurume...). This is done in electrical oven. Then, the metal (undergoing only partial refinement) is shaped into ingot and brought by truck to the two main harbor : Durban (South Africa) and Dar Es Salaam (Tanzania).

Interesting when it comes to the relations between the FBU and the USA. Then, help might be given to US troops in Kenya not because of oil but to secure access to he harbor. Also interesting for the relations with South Africa.

Another part of the mineral (for exemple, Uranium) is brought as such still using trucks. The mineral is, then, put in "Big Bags" and sent to either the ports or to conditioning factories in South Africa.

As a resumé: always by truck (60 tons double carrier trucks), in ingots (partial refinement) or Big Bags (non-refined).

Most of it get out of Katanga through Kasumbalesa on the border with Zambia (96 km south of Lubumbashi).

Might not be the French in Katanga but the South Africans

I could have asked him some times ago but until very recently he was working in the south of Algeria extracting oil (in what they call a life base) and was out of reach. He just quit his job because he considered to have had enough with revolutions and uprisings. Fair enough when you consider that he had been several times in the RDC (Kolwezi...), Chad (When France and the CIA had a small issue with an obscure Colonel Khadaffy), Haute-Volta (the day prior to it being renamed Burkina Faso), Haiti (at the time of Baby Doc fall)...

My uncle and aunt lived in 35 African countries and went through 32 wars and revolutions. Each time they arrived somewhere we used to bet on how long the regime would last. Now, they have been residing in France for two years .

Thanks Mo, that's interesting...so from the looks of things you'd need to make sure you had some sort of power source in place for the electric ovens.

Both sea ports are on the east coast of Africa so that would present some challenges I think, particularly if we assume that the Suez Canal is no longer passable...any ships coming out of East Africa and headed for France would have to go the long way around. Durban is a long haul and I suppose is governed by what has happened in South Africa, which is something that has come up on these boards a few times before. Dar is closer so would (presumably) mean shorter journey times to the port (thinking here that the riskiest part of the venture would be the road trip from the mine to the coast). As you say though, interesting as to how a French presence in Tanzania might affect relations with the US (and others). Zanzibar might be an interesting setting.

Also, I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread, but we know from the RDF Sourcebook that there's a significant French presence in Djibouti.

Interesting info...thanks

[unkated]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Just having a quick look at some of the areas you've suggested...Katanga Province of the Democratic Republic of Congo looks interesting...according to wiki it has supplies of copper, cobalt, tin, radium, diamonds, and uranium, although extraction might be a problem - looks like you're many hundreds of kilometres from any seaports.

Katanga was, of course, a locale of mercenary action in the 1960s.

You could have an interesting campaign of a well-stocked mercenary activity kicking off in say 1997 (when all the major powers are otherwise occupied) to seize the province, declare independence, and wait out the war and then set up for business in teh aftermath. The French could be a good early partner, lending military aid and selling equipment in exchange for raw materials. By 2001-5, they and perhaps Brazil and Argentina may be the best customers (semi-intact still-active industrial sectors).

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

If French troops are in Gabon and Cameroon there's probably a fair chance they may be in Equatorial Guinea as well - substantial oil reserves were discovered there in 1996 IRL (assuming it didn't get nuked of course).

Libya is mentioned in Mediterranean Cruise...I think it may have been nuked, but can't be certain.

Libya is a big place. If it was nuked, I would assume that someone targeted refineries or ports. Nuking very oil well out in the desert would take a lot of shots. Inefficient use of resources; if you are denying oil to your enemies, you are concerned with keeping them from exporting it.

An interesting possibility if Libya was nuked or has otherwise fallen apart would be period French military actions to seize a well, pump out a (truck) convoy's worth or oil, and then be taken off of a minor port.

Another possibility would be to lay a new pipeline to a minor unnuked port for use...

Uncle Ted

[Olefin]

Libya was nuked per Med Cruise - I referred to that in the East African sourcebook - however you are right - they nuked the refineries mostly and also the ports - so you can get oil still - the issue is getting it transported to the coast

Med Cruise had them using merchant convoys bringing drums of barely refined dirty diesel fuel (refined by using 50 gallon drums to seperate the oil that burns as diesel from the heavier elements)

Having the French get involved (or for that matter the Italians out of Sicily) would be a fun way to do a different kind of adventure for the game (and a great way to actually play Italian or French characters)

either as part of the effort to get the oil transported (i.e. convoy guards) or as a recon force trying to find operational oil wells