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#1
06-06-2011, 07:31 AM
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OT; The Longest Day
Sixty seven years ago today, the largest amphibious landing in history started the final chapter of the history of the Third Reich. It marked the return of the western Allies to occupied Europe and the start of the long, bloody road that would end in a small bunker in Berlin.
To the soldiers, sailors and airmen, the men and women who risked their lives and especially to those who paid the supreme price...may your sacrifice never be forgotten!
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis. 
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#2
06-06-2011, 08:05 AM
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Forgive me if this has been posted here before; when you watch the movie The Longest Day; have a look for Richard Todd's character, Major John Howard.
Uniquely among the cast, Todd actually fought on D-Day; while he did not play himself, he was a platoon commander in the airborne unit led by Howard. At one point IIRC he even speaks to a character called "Toddy."
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#3
06-06-2011, 08:31 AM
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However I'm being seriously picky here and your point is a good one - that must have been very weird making the film the Longest Day - filming those sequences with the central character in that part of the story being played by someone who was actually there! It's a very good film and the book by Cornelius Ryan is also well worth reading. Quote:
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#4
06-06-2011, 08:51 AM
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The sheer size of Overlord still boggles the mind.
The Allies landed the British 6th Airborne and the US 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions on the night of June 5th and then landed the US 1st and 4th Infantry Divisions, two regiments of the 29th Infantry Division, dozens of attached battalions on two beachs and the British landed the 3rd and 50th Divisions, the Canadian 3rd Division, the British 79th Armoured Division as well as supporting brigades and battalions. The Royal Navy committed 3 battleships, 17 cruisers, 2 monitors, 65 destroyers, 11 frigates, 17 corvettes and 4 sloops. The United States Navy added 3 battleships, 3 heavy cruisers, 30 destroyers and 2 frigates. The Free French sent 2 light cruisers, 1 destroyer, 2 corvettes and 4 frigates. The Free Poles sent a light cruiser and 2 destroyers. Norway added 3 destroyer, Greece 2 corvettes and Holland sent 2 sloops. Not to mention 4,126 landing craft and ships, 736 ancillary ships and craft and 864 merchant ships. An armada the likes of which will never be seen again.
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#5
06-06-2011, 09:43 AM
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I collect a wide variety of military history books and manuals. Came across this loadout for D-Day.
The assault battalions did not land their companies in their normal tactical configuration, the shortage of LCVPs required that the boats be loaded to their maximum capacity, regardless of squad/platoon TO&Es. There were two types of loads: The Assault Boat Load and the Support Boat Load. The Assault Boat Load: 30 men organized as a: A boat team leader (officer) armed with a M-1 carbine, a M1911A1 pistol and carrying 6 colored smoke grenades, a smoke grenade, a frag grenade and a SCR-537 walkie-talkie. A rifle team of 5 men. #1 & #2 each armed with a M-1 Garand, 1 smoke grenade, 2 frag grenades and a wirecutter. #3 carrys a M-1 Garand, 1 smoke grenade, 1 frag grenade, a M-7 grenade launcher and 10 smoke rifle grenades. #4 & #5 each with a M-1 Garand, 1 smoke grenade, 1 frag grenade, 1 bangalore torpedo. A wire cutting team of 4 men, each with a M-1 Garand, 1 smoke grenade, 2 bangalore torpedoes, 2 small wirecutters, 2 large wirecutters. A BAR team of 4 men, #1 & #3 with a M-1918A2 BAR (13 mags). #2 & #4 each with a M-1 Garand and 13 BAR mags. A light mortar team of 4 men; #1 with a M-1 Carbine, a M1911A1 pistol, a 60mm mortar sight, cleaning staff, binoculars, compass, flashlight and 12 60mm mortar bombs. #2 with a M1911A1 pistol, the 60mm mortar and 5 mortar bombs. #3 with M-1 Carbine, a M1911A1 pistol and 12 mortar bombs. And #4 with a M-1 Carbine, a M-1911A1 pistol and 12 mortar bombs. A bazooka team of 4 men; #1 & #3 each with a M-1 Carbine, a M1911A1 pistol, a M-1A1 Bazooka and 8 rockets. #2 & #4 each with a M-1 Garand and 12 bazooka rockets. A flamethrower team of 2 men; #1 with a M1911A1 pistol, and a M-1 flamethrower. #2 with a M-1 Garand, 4 smoke grenades, 6 frag grenades 5 gallon fuel refill, spare nitrogen tank and a set of wrenches. A demolitions team of 5 men each with M-1 Garand, 50' of primercord, 4 detonators, 6 blocks of TNT, 7 pack charges, 3 pole charges, 2 fuze lighters, a demo kit with crimpers, knife, tape and cord, 2 frag grenades and 1 smoke grenade. A assistant boat team leader (NCO) with a M-1 Garand, 2 smoke grenades and 8 frag grenades. Each man with a M-1 Garand carried 176 rounds (80 in a cartridge belt and 96 in two bandoleers). Each man with a M-1 Carbine had 5 magazines and those with a pistol carried 3 mags. The Support Boat Team consisted of 30 men, organized as follows; A boat team leader (officer) with a M-1 Carbine, a M1911A1 pistol, 6 colored smoke grenades, a smoke grenade, a frag grenade and a SCR-536 walkie-talkie. A rifle team of 5 men. #1, #2 & #3 each with a M-1 Garand, a M-7 grenade launcher, a smoke grenade, a frag grenade, 3 smoke rifle grenades and 12 AT rifle grenades. #4 & #5 each with a M-1 Garand, 2 smoke grenades, 5 frag grenades and a pair of wirecutters. A machine gun team of 6 men. #1 with a M1911A1 pistol and a tripod. #2 with either a M-1919A4 or a M-1917A1 machine gun and a M-1 carbine. #3 with a M-1 carbine, spare parts box and a 250rd ammo box (and water chest if the M1917A1 is present). #4 & #5 each with a M-1 carbine and 2 250-rd ammo boxes. #6 with a M-1 carbine, 2 250-rd ammo boxes and a pair of binoculars. A wire cutting team of 4 men; each with a M-1 Garand, a smoke grenade, 2 bangalore torpedoes, 2 small wirecutters and 2 large wirecutters. A 81mm mortar team of 8 men: #1 with a M-1 carbine, mortar sight, compass, flashlight, sound-powered telephone and 5 mortar bombs. #2 with a M-1 carbine, mortar bipod and a sound-powered telephone. #3 with a M-1 carbine, mortar tube with aiming stakes carried inside it. #4 with the mortar baseplate and a M-1 carbine. #5 with a M-1 carbine, 7 mortar bombs and a wire reel with 400 yards of ammo wire. # 6, #7 & #8, each with a M-1 Garand and 7 mortar bombs. A demolition team of 5 men, each with a M-1 Garand, 50' primercord, 4 detonators, 6 blocks of TNT, 7 pack charges, 3 pole charges, 2 fuze lighters,a demo kit with crimpers, knife, tape and cord, 2 frag grenades, 1 smoke grenade. A assistant boat team leader (NCO) with a M-1 Garand, 2 smoke grenades and 8 frag grenades. Small arms loadout as for the the assault boat team. In addition, each landing craft carried 6 bandoleers of rifle ammunition, 6 frag and 2 smoke grenades, 1,500 rds of machine gun ammo, 72 rounds of 60mm mortar bombs or 24 rounds of 81mm mortar bombs, 10 bazooka rockets, 2 pole charges, 3 pack charges, 560 rds per BAR and 12 AT rifle grenades. These cases would often have inflated life belts attached to insure that they would float in, just in case the landing craft sank. Each soldier was also supposed to carry the following: web waist belt; wool drawers; helmet with liner; 2 handkerchiefs; M1941 field jacket; leggings and service shoes; impregnated wool socks; impregnated flannel shirt; impregnated wool trousers; wool undershirt; M1928 haversack; canteen with cup and cover; spoon; first aid pouch with bandage; ID tags; entrenching tool with cover; cartridge belt and M-1 bayonet for riflemen OR BAR magazine belt and M-3 combat knife OR pistol belt with ammo pouch and M-3 combat knife. *Note, the Allies were terrifed that the Germans would launch chemical attacks, the outer clothing was impregnated with a anti-mustard gas compound that left the clothing with a white, dusty layer, as well as leaving the wool with a foul smell and with a oily feel. Each soldier had to have a blanket roll ready to be landed later that day, it contains: 1 pair cotton drawers; 2 handkerchiefs; 1 pair service shoes; 2 pairs wool socks; 1 cotton undershirt; 2 wool blankets; 1 bath towel; 1 suit HBT (either shirt and pants or coveralls); shelter half with pole, rope and 5 stakes; mess kit with fork and knife. Also carried by each soldier were: PX rations consisting of 7 packs of cigarettes (or 1/2oz of pipe tobacco); 1 razor blade; 7 packs of gum; 7 boxes of matches. The M-5 assault gas mask with a tube of prootective ointment; a anti-dim cloth to keep the eyepieces clear; 2 sleeve gas detectors; a 8oz can of shoe impregnite, a individual protective cloth (gas suit); and 2 plastic eyeshields. A pack of seasickness pills and "2, bags, vomit". A Armed Forces Service Edition paperback. Three K-rations and three D-rations. A inflatable life belt; a raincoat (ponchos were not issued at this time); 4 1/2oz sterno heating units; a bottle of water purificationtablets; 3 pairs of wool socks; 1 pair of impregnated protective socks; a 2oz can of insect powder; 3 prophylactics (condoms); a pilofilm bag (to protect the weapon from sea water and sand); a copy of Eisenhower's message to the troops and 200 francs in invasion currency. It was estimated that each soldier in the assault waves had to carry between 70-90 pounds of equipment. And now you know why photos of D-Day often show heaps of equipment, abandoned by the troops......
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#7
06-07-2011, 07:40 AM
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The main difference between the two battles is that the Japanese didn't contest the landings, in contrast to how bloody Omaha beach was (and, to a lesser extent, the other four zones). And the D-Day invasion, as you pointed out, represented more nations than just the US and British Commonwealth.
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight you didn't plan your mission properly! Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
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#8
06-07-2011, 08:18 AM
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Given the English channel is a bit of a tight area to begin with, I'm guessing that the Allies probably couldn't have fit more vessels in there even if they'd wanted to.
Okinawa on the other hand, being an island and not opposite another entire country, allowed the fleet to spread out a bit more, and slot in a few more ships here and there too. It's probably also worth noting that nearly EVERYTHING had to be carried in the fleet where as on D-Day, vessels could ferry several loads from the UK in a day (all going well).
__________________
If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives. Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect" Mors ante pudorem
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#9
06-07-2011, 03:01 PM
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Don't forget that major elements of the fleet were conducting raids on Japan and providing distance cover in case of any sortie by the remains of the Imperial Navy. That removes the fleet carriers, the fast battleships and their escorts and support ships. The real heros of the Okinawa naval battle was the gun line of old battleships; the escort carriers providing CAS and their escorts. They were tied to a certain distance from the island and had to bear some of the heaviest kamikaze attacks of the war. Its also worth noting that the Battle of Okinawa resulted in the heaviest losses of WWII for the USN.
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#10
07-19-2011, 01:06 PM
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#11
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
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#12
06-06-2011, 07:29 PM
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Just watched the film again- the other great quote is:
Pvt Clough: "You know Flanagan, there are some very peculiar people on this beach!" Apologies for taking the thread toward the film and away from the real event- the achievement was so great, it still amazes me.
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#13
06-07-2011, 06:38 AM
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When I received my medical discharge from the Army, my first civilian boss was a veteran of D-Day. Didn't know it until I was in his office and framed over his desk was a battered piece of paper, Eisenhower's Message to the troops. In faded ink and pencil were the signatures of the men of his platoon. They were part of Company A, 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment of the 1st Infantry Division and they were part of the Third Wave into Omaha Beach.
He never would talk about his experiences on Bloody Omaha, but from research, I found out that his platoon went into action with 45 men assigned to it, by the end of the Longest Day, 21 men were left. By the time the 1st Division broke out of the bocage, there were only 7 men remaining out of thise who had landed on D-Day. He served with the 1st Infantry Division, somehow remaining untouched until the fighting in the Ardennes, where he lost his left arm. By that time, he was the only man remaining from the D-Day platoon. Corporal Joe Sheridan died on March 3rd, 2005. Another member of the Greatest Generation reporting for duty Saint Peter; I've served my time in hell!
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#14
06-07-2011, 11:49 AM
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Airforce strength D-Day
Did some reading on the D-Day operation. As we have seen the land and sea forces were extrordinary.
The Allied Air Forces did their part as well: 11,590 Aircraft used in support of D-Day, 14,674 sorties being flown. As part of the Airborne Assault: 2395 aircraft and 867 gliders. Thank God for the unsinkable Aircraft Carrier "H.M.S. United Kingdom". Mike
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#15
06-07-2011, 12:03 PM
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Your post about the about the air forces reminded me that the Discovery Channel recently aired an excellent 2 hour show titled "Surviving D-Day" that detailed why so many men died on Omaha. Every bomb dropped by the allied air in the early morning behind the beach with the intent to destroy the German arty missed. Then there was the matter of 27 out of 29 Sherman DDs sinking, leaving the troops with no gunnery support against the pillboxes. The list of problems goes on and on. It was a miracle that any GIs survived at all.
__________________
If you find yourself in a fair fight you didn't plan your mission properly! Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
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#16
06-07-2011, 02:55 PM
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The reason why the bombers missed their targets is so simple its stupid.
The Eighth Air Force was requested to fly along the coast, dropping their bomb loads, if the bombers missed their primary targets, the bombs would still hit the beach, creating craters that could be used for cover and still have a good chance of damaging obstacles and rattling the beach defenders. Eighth Air Force decided WITHOUT CONSULTING ANYONE ELSE that this would involve too high a risk to the troops, they made the decision to fly over the beaches and delay 1-2 seconds in order to hit their targets. The bombadiers, afraid of hitting the ships in the Channel, delayed a further 2-3 seconds. Talk about missing the target by a country mile! After action reports with the ground troops cited the medium bombers of the Ninth Air Force with providing better and closer support.
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#17
06-28-2011, 12:58 PM
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During the War, the Germans issued three types of combat rations to their troops:
Marschverpflegung or March Rations: this was a cold ration issued for not more than 3-4 consecutive days to units in transit either by carriers or by foot. It contained about 700gms of bread, 200gms of cold meat or cheese, 60gms of bread spreads, 9gms of coffee or 4gms of tea, 10gms of surgar and six cigarettes, total weight was about 980gms. Eiserne Portion or Iron Ration: This consisted of 250gms of biscuits, 200gms of cold meat, 150gms of preserved vegatables, 25gm of coffee and 25gms of salt. Total weight was about 825gms. Grosskampfpacken or Combat Package: A simple ration issued to front line troops engaged in combat. It consists of chocolate bars, fruit bars, hard candies, cigarettes and biscuits. Total weight is about 650gms. The US also issued three types of combat rations to its troops: C-Ration: This consisted to two M (Meat) cans and two B (Bread) cans. There was not a wide selection in the meat, basically corned beef hash, meat and beans, meat and vegatables and meat and noodles, all were throughly hated by the troops. The Bread Ration was a dozen or so crackers, a fudge or cookie disc, a powdered drink (grape, orange, lemon or cocoa) or premixed cereal. Also issued was an accessory pack that contained several sheets of toilet paper, salt, sugar, powdered coffee, chocolate-covered peanuts or hard candy and a wooden spoon. D-Rations: The so-called Logan Bar (also referred to as Hitler's Secret Weapon), is a small highly concentrated chocolate bar containing cocoa, oat flour and skim milk powder. It weighs 4oz, but provides 600 calories. Normally packaged in 4-bar packs, it is an emergency ration not a treat! K-Rations: The most widely issued and best known ration of the war. This was packaged in three meals, labeled breakfast, lunch or supper. Breakfast consisted of a fruit bar, powdered coffee, sugar, crackers, a premixed cereal bar and a small can of ham and eggs. Lunch contained a small can of cheese (American, Swiss or American with bacon), crackers, orange or lemon drink powder, sugar, chocolate or other candy and chewing gum, Supper was a small can of potted meat or Spam, crackers, powdered coffee, sugar, chocolate or other candy and chewing gum. All three had an accessory pack that held 9 cigarettes, a book of matches, a pack of toilet paper and a wooden spoon. And now you know why Germans and GIs would go out of their way to forage any kind of food other than the issue crap!
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#18
07-19-2011, 12:46 PM
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Source material drawn from “Omaha Beach, A Flawed Victory” as well as “Operation Plan Neptune, Western Naval Task Force, Assault Force ‘O’, Annex E, Gunfire Support Plan”.
The Allies approached D-Day convinced that they would have both tactical surprise as well as the greatest possible firepower ever assembled for an amphibious assault. Overlord would be the largest amphibious assault in history, therefore the planners had no standard that they could measure the adequacy of their plans or of the firepower resources allotted to the task. The only information that the Allies could use was the American Pacific theater doctrine and the British Mediterranean theater doctrine. Yet, in spite of this knowledge, the Overlord planners approached their task by developing a new, untested, hybrid doctrine. This doctrine rested on the combination of naval gunfire support from both warships and converted landing craft and the use of heavy bombers in a tactical situation. The Royal Navy and the U. S. Navy provided a mix of battleships, cruisers and destroyers to conduct the pre-invasion bombardments. The warships assigned to Omaha Beach included the battleships USS Texas and USS Arkansas, the cruisers HMS Bellona, HMS Glasgow, FFS Georges Leygues and FFS Montcalm, the destroyers USS Baldwin, Carmick, Doyle, Emmons, Frankford, Harding, McCook, Satterlee, Thompson, HMS Melbreak, HMS Talybont, and HMS Tanatside. The battleships and cruisers were assigned the task of engaging the fourteen German artillery batteries that could threaten Omaha Beach. These batteries would be engaged in accordance with a priority list and the warships spotter planes would be used to correct fires. This would commence at first light and last until the batteries were silenced. The next phase would be the neutralization of beach defenses commencing at H-20 minutes. The destroyers and armed landing craft would deliver the initial fires to be supported by the cruisers and battleships as they completed their counter-battery assignments. At H Hour, the naval fires would switch towards targets further inland or on the flanks of the beach. The last phase of the naval bombardment program was the close support fire on call. This phase would commence as the naval shore fire control parties landed and set up, at approximately H+30 minutes. Each of the four initial assault battalions had a naval fire control party that would accompany it. Each battalion would have two destroyers in direct support. All told, the naval gunfire program was slated to last a total of thirty minutes. The air phase of the bombardment program is, perhaps, the most misunderstood. Many histories written after the war have the bombers being assigned to drop their ordnance directly onto the beach. Nothing could be further from the truth. The air support for Operation Overlord was intended to attack the battery positions, beach defense localities, bridges, road embankments, cable junctions, command posts and communications centers. This would be assigned to the heavy bombers of the Eighth Air Force. Close air support would be conducted by the fighters of the Eighth Air Force and it is in this mission that the air forces failed. Every regimental landing team was assigned an air support party. They were assigned VHF radios, but were not permitted to talk directly with the overhead aircraft unless they were specifically authorized to do so. Nor were they allowed to intervene in stopping attacks on friendly troops or on wrong targets. To request air support, each party would have to call a headquarters hip and the request was then relayed to a central control facility in Uxbridge, England. There the decisions was made whether to support the request. So cumbersome was this process that on June 6, 1944, Uxbridge received only thirteen requests. Targets of opportunity were attacked by aircraft on station above the battlefield, however, these aircraft could not communicate with ground units and could not assist in any meaningful tactical situation. Additional fire support would be provided by tanks, machine guns, artillery, naval guns and rockets mounted or loaded on variety of landing craft. Their mission was to “furnish during the approach to the beaches and prior to touchdown, area fire on and in the rear of the beaches, fire on strong points, beach defenses and to take part in drenching fire on the beaches.” To support the Omaha Beach landings were 9 LCT(R)s, 5 LCG(L)s, 7 LCFs, 18 LCT(A)s and 32 LCP(L)s. The LCT(R) or landing craft, tank, rocket were fitted with 1,064 5-inch rockets. They were intended to deliver a large volume of preparatory fire on the landing beaches at the last moment before the assault. The intent was to start launching the rockets while the assault troops were 300 yards out from the beaches, the rockets would clear lanes through the obstacles and minefields. The LCG(L) or landing craft, gun, large were fitted with two 4.7-inch naval guns and two 20mm AA guns. Manned by Royal Marines, they were intended to provide direct fire against beach positions and surface attack for the initial assault waves. Each LCG(L) had specific targets to neutralize and an area of responsibility for targets of opportunity. LCFs or landing craft, flak were fitted with either eight 2-pdr and 4 20mm AA guns or four 2-pdr and 8 20mm AA guns. Their mission was to provide air defense to the landing craft as well as to engage surface targets prior to and during the landings. LCT(A)s, or landing craft, tank, armored each carried two M-4 Sherman medium tanks. As part of the leading assault waves, they were to land their cargo directly onto the beach. The tanks were tasked with opening fire as soon as range and visibility permitted, take part in the beach drenching fire and then join the assault. LCP(L)s or landing craft, personnel, large were equipped with smoke generators and had the mission of screening the assault waves in the last moments before the landing. When I first read Flawed Victory I was certain that the author had erred in many ways...until I was able to see a copy of the Gunfire Support Plan. One is left with the impression that General Bradley who oversaw the planning, had dropped the ball, badly.
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#19
07-19-2011, 01:08 PM
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Source material from "Omaha Beach, A Flawed Victory" and "Sherman".
The D-Day landings depended on naval gunfire and on a new device called a Duplex-Drive Tank. For Operation Overlord, this was a nine-foot high, waterproofed canvas skirt mounted onto a standard M-4A3 Sherman. THe shroud was held upright by thirty-six airfilled pillers and a set of collapsible metal struts. The basic idea was sound. It is possible to float almost any size vehicle, no matter its weight, provide the shroud is high enough. But the higher the shroud, the more unstable and fragile the vehicle. At sea, the bulk of the DD tank hung some seven and a half feet below the surface of the water. Slightly more than a foot of the shroud protruded above the surface. The vehicle was propelled and steered by two 18-inch diameter propellers which were movable and acted as rudders. The best speed that a DD tank could maintain was about 4.5-5 knots. Each DD tank was fitted with a gyro compass for navigation, a platfrom on the rear of the turret that the TC could stand on and steer, a bilge pump with a fifteen-gallon-per-minute capacity and safety gear. The safety gear consisted of an inflatable life raft, a modified version of the submarine escape device (the Davis Lung) per man and an inflatable safety belt per man. To launch the tanks, a modified LCT was used. Four tanks could be carried by each LCT and launched in less than eight minutes. DUring the rather limited testing phase, it was determined that a DD tank could traverse 4,000 yards of calm seas in 28 minutes. While tanks were deployed as far out as 6,000 yards, all training was conducted at 3-4,000 yards. The tests also confirmed that the canvas shroud could be easily torn and that a hole larger than one foot could sink the tank. The DD tank could also be sunk by the wash of LCF, LCS and larger assault craft and that the concussion of nearby explosions could cause the metal frame to collapse. Another issue was the limited exhaust venting of teh tanks engine, traversing more than 4,000 yards could lead to carbon monoxide poisoning of the crews. These amphibious tanks were heavily counted on to support the Allied troops during the critical opening phase of the assault. On June 6th, 1944, the DD tanks of B & C Companies of the 741st Tank Battalion were launched between 0530 and 0600 hours, some 6,000 yards off Omaha Beach. As the tanks rolled down the LCT ramps, some of them immediately sank, others managed to launch, but fell victims to the collapse of their canvas shrouds during the long run into the beach. Of the 32 DD Tanks launched off Omaha, only 5 reached the beach, three others were landed on the beach by the LCTs because of difficulties with the ramp. One hunred and thrity-five men of B & C Companies of the 741st Tank Battalion went into action on D-Day. Remarkably, only 33 were lost, drowned at sea. Following D-Day, the bodies of 25 soldiers were recovered, by the end of June, 2 more bodies were recovered. These 27 bodies were the only ones recovered off the Normandy Coast. In 1987, US Army Europe mounted a third search of the tank graveyard. A French SCUBA diver reported that he had seen skeletal remains in a tank off Normandy. A joint army/navy task force examined the remains of all 24 tanks, but no remains were found. The conclusion was that all possible remains had been recovered. No effort was made to recover the tanks and they remain at the bottom of the Channel, a mute testimony to courage of their crews.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#20
07-19-2011, 10:13 PM
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This was despite Corlett's experience included studying the Tarawa battlefield with the Marines, and working out a deadly efficient fire-support plan with the Navy. Bradley did participate in the Sicily landings, including the smaller ones on the north coast, but he should have been aware that Normandy would be a different animal. Corlett's XIX Corps HQ did not land at D-Day, but much later. Even then, they were not favored by First Army, and Corlett was sacked during the slogging of November '44. On the other hand, Utah's corps commander was J. Lawton Collins, who had commanded a division on Guadalcanal and New Georgia (but it appears to me, no landings), and had also been sent by Marshall to Bradley. Putting Corlett and not Gerow in charge at Omaha might have led to a different fire-support plan?
__________________
My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988.
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#21
07-19-2011, 10:23 PM
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For what it's worth...
I've got a game of GMT's "Battle for Normandy" set up in my basement right now. It's partly a revision of the old "Longest Day" game from Avalon Hill.
I'm playing the Germans, and we're starting the 5th day. Omaha has been mostly contained, Utah almost as much, with heavy paratrooper casualties. The British haven't broken out, but my SS troops are starting to get thinned out. Bayeux is being contested, and they're only halfway to Caen. The 21st Panzer Division just took Pegasus Bridge in a night tank assault, so the British paratroopers are in trouble. If I can get some more infantry divisions into the fight fast enough, I might be able to squeeze Omaha some more.
__________________
My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988.
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#22
07-20-2011, 09:06 AM
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Right now I've got Terrible Swift Sword set up and my seven-year old son is having a blast with Buford's Cavalry Division holding the line!
__________________
The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#23
07-20-2011, 11:33 AM
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If anyone wants to trace a relative who died in British or Commonwealth service, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission has a good search facility at
www.cwgc.org The more details you have, the easier the search will be, but if all you have is a surname it will show you all the records it has. I used it to find details of my great uncle, a lieutenant in the Green Howards, who landed in Normandy two days after D-Day and was killed three weeks later. Now I know where to look I should go and visit his grave...
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#24
07-20-2011, 09:02 AM
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Samuel Eliot Morrison, the naval historian had this to say on the Omaha Beach defense, "altogether, the Germans had provided the best imitation of hell for an invading force that American troops had encountered anywhere. Even the Japanese defenses of Iwo Jima, Tarawa and Peleliu are not to be compared with these." Considering that the three Japanese islands were reknowned as some of the hardest actions that the Marines ever fought, this says a lot about Omaha Beach. Toss into the pot that the Allies had massive information on the location and construction of the German defenses, via the French Resistance who would work on the defenses during the day and radio their reports in at night, then how could a thirty minute fire plan be considered as anything other than hopelessly inadequate. One of the arguements in favor of the gunfire plan was that any extended bombardment would alert the Germans to the location of the invasion and there is a lot to be said for this. German reinforcements started arriving in the late afternoon of June 6th (mostly 21st Panzers movement to cover Caen), but siginificant reinforcements still were not able to arrive for at least 36-hours. So why wasn't a bombardment of, say 3-4 hours undertaken? Would you believe Bradley's reason was to "maintain tactical surprise"!!!! Maybe its me, but sailing a fleet of a few thousand ships off a beach, kinda blows the surprise....
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#25
07-21-2011, 12:53 PM
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My Twilight claim to fame: I ran "Allegheny Uprising" at Allegheny College, spring of 1988.
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#26
07-21-2011, 01:13 PM
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So what was Bradley thinking? D-Day had the shortest bombardment period, followed by landing the troops during daylight. And to really puzzle everyone, Gerow (the corps commander) as well as the Hubner (the 1st ID commander) both objected to the gunnery program. Right up to the point that Bradley threatened to remove both officers from their commands. One can almost pity Bradley, standing safely offshore on his command ship, hearing the sketchy reports of the failure of his grand scheme. In the end, it was the raw courage of the assault troops, coupled with the sucidial bravery of the supporting destroyers that enabled the Americans to win at Omaha. But, dear God, at what a cost.
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The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.
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#27
07-21-2011, 01:26 PM
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Off the thread topic here, but we used to discuss the D-Day landing a lot in ROTC. We came up with this for a modern attack on the same area and type of positions:
1) A preparatory bombardment with Lance missiles (still in service at the time), cruise missiles (by Tomahawks and the then-new CALCMs), and attack aircraft armed with mostly iron bombs and laser and TV-guided missiles, and some smart bombs (smart bombs weren't as common in the early 1980s as they are now), and possibly heavier bombardment with B-52s and B-1s. 2) A combined amphibious assault by Marines and an air assault with helicopters. 3) Limited conventional airborne drops on key enemy positions. Airborne operations, even in the early 1980s, weren't necessarily the mess that they were in the 1940s. 4) Heavy use of special operations, as early as a week or possibly more before the actual D-Day assault. Possibly as much as six months before, some special ops units would be scoping out the opposition and aiding resistance forces. 5) Heavy use of air cover, especially by helicopters and aircraft such as the A-10, during the D-Day assault. Of course, the German positions would be protected by a big SAM umbrella, mobile AAA, and they would be armed with a lot of shoulder-fired rockets and ATGM, as well as land-fired antiship missiles...we assumed for the scenario that there was still a stupid Hitler-type who refused to release most of his armored forces until it was too late. We also assumed for the scenario that as with the actual D-Day, only two German aircraft got off and attacked the beach, but they would be armed with a cannon pod each and cluster bombs. Allied casualties might have been so severe that this version of D-Day might have been repulsed.
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I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com
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