OT: Alien invasion

[weswood]

Between the tv series "Fallen Skies" and reading a few books, primarily David Weber's "Out of the Dark", and Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar" series I've become fixated with aliens invading the world.

I've come up with a few ideas of my own if I were to write a book.

Mission: Subjugate mankind and exploit the Earth's resources, primarily precious and regular metals (iron, tin, copper etc.).

Aliens: Two basic races. I was sitting in the hot tub (with the heat turned off!) thinking a fast breeding, fast maturing race of foot soldiers would be perfect. It would save valuable cargo space in both deep sleep chambers and foods during a long space trip. I was thinking of there was some way to combine pig and human DNA, then I thought the old standard orc from AD&D would work perfect. Fast growing, fast breeding, not too bright, mean.

For the primary race I thought I'd stick with AD&D Drow elves. I wanted a race of long lived aliens who are mean.

And no, no magic, no swords. Well, maybe swords as sidearms....

The primary invasion tactics I'm not real sure of. Travel through space; park on the far side of the sun from earth to breed up the cannon fodder & scout out the earth.

My first thought was drop some nukes to EMP most of the earth to destroy communications & mess with the infrastructure, followed by Kinetic Energy Weapons on military bases & country capitals. Then drop the invasion forces.

But then I just finished reading Willian Forstchen's "One Second After", about a small town in North Virginia after the USA has been hit by nationwide EMP.
So I'm thinking maybe EMP the world, then wait two months or so and let the weaker humans die out some, and the stronger ones weaken up through starvation. That would have the effects of making the resistance easier on the drop forces and make the invaders look better when they offer food.

I've also thought about dropping in disguised as human sabatuers and spies in before the first strikes, to work behind the lines. And possibly some human alliances to fight once the invasion has started, ala Hernan Cortez.

Instead of taking on the world all at once, the invaders would establish a major foothold on each continent and concentrate on subjugating one ant a time.

I think I'm going to go with electro magnetic railguns for small arms, and probably heavier weapons.

And just to make it interesting, I'd make the U.S. have strict gun laws. Law abiding citizens would be able to own a shotgun with a barrel of 20" or more, and non-cartridge black powder weapons.

What do ya'll think? Sound interesting or just another stupid idea?

[Targan]

Originally Posted by weswood

Mission: Subjugate mankind and exploit the Earth's resources, primarily precious and regular metals (iron, tin, copper etc.).

If you are a species capable of crossing interstellar space why would you come all the way to another solar system and down into a gravity well to exploit mineral resources? The asteroid belt (and more than likely asteroid belts in many if not most solar systems) contain vast amounts of all kinds of minerals. If you are a major space faring people that's where you'd get the bulk of your resources, not from the surfaces of major planetary bodies.

You need to come up with something the aliens want that they can only get here. Maybe humans themselves are the resource the aliens want?

[weswood]

That's what I was thinking but I haven't been able to come up with a better reason.

Maybe the planet itself as an expansion to thier empire?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Targan

You need to come up with something the aliens want that they can only get here. Maybe humans themselves are the resource the aliens want?

Terrestrial life as food sources.

There is a one in four chance that the proteins would be edible to a extra terrestrial traveler.

Miners. Taking humans to be miners in belt colonies.

Collecting or harvesting specimens for inter galactic zoos.

Water.

[Targan]

Let me state first that I'm not trying to gainsay anybody's ideas or display how clever I am. I like Wes' and Army SGT's ideas and I'm just running a critical eye over them.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Terrestrial life as food sources. There is a one in four chance that the proteins would be edible to a extra terrestrial traveler.

Once again, the high technology of a species that can cross interstellar space makes this idea redundant. You're absolutely right about the proteins though. Maybe if the aliens were like those in the Predator films this could be a factor (the aliens have a racial imperative to hunt and devour other sentient species).

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Miners. Taking humans to be miners in belt colonies.

Collecting or harvesting specimens for inter galactic zoos.

I can totally dig these ideas. If genetic engineering was an area of technology the invading aliens weren't so good at maybe subjugating a slave species would be a valuable outcome for them.

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

Water.

Why? There are incredibly vast amounts of water in space that would be much easier to access than the water at the bottom of the Earth's gravity well. The Oort Cloud (where the comets come from) contains untold trillions of gigalitres of water. And frankly if you can cross interstellar space you can most likely manufacture water cheaply and efficiently from hydrogen and oxygen.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by Targan

Let me state first that I'm not trying to gainsay anybody's ideas or display how clever I am. I like Wes' and Army SGT's ideas and I'm just running a critical eye over them.

I think it well established that the participants use each other as sounding boards more than gathering for a consensus. A bit of criticism is good for the ego. Keeps mine in check anyway.

Originally Posted by Targan

Once again, the high technology of a species that can cross interstellar space makes this idea redundant. You're absolutely right about the proteins though. Maybe if the aliens were like those in the Predator films this could be a factor (the aliens have a racial imperative to hunt and devour other sentient species).

This assumes that a closed loop biosphere requiring only nutrient input and energy input is possible at their level and economically feasible. Stopping along the way and harvesting biomass may be cheaper or consume less than carrying along a garden the size of the Ukraine.

Originally Posted by Targan

I can totally dig these ideas. If genetic engineering was an area of technology the invading aliens weren't so good at maybe subjugating a slave species would be a valuable outcome for them.

Maybe it is the sheer biodiversity of our world. Maybe they see everything on the earth as an exploitable resource. Kangaroo liver becomes a moisturizer, and the human hypothalamus is an aphrodisiac, and garden slugs are the new frozen treat.

Originally Posted by Targan

Why? There are incredibly vast amounts of water in space that would be much easier to access than the water at the bottom of the Earth's gravity well. The Oort Cloud (where the comets come from) contains untold trillions of gigalitres of water. And frankly if you can cross interstellar space you can most likely manufacture water cheaply and efficiently from hydrogen and oxygen.

We assume this. Maybe purifiying the water out of trillions or tons of gravel, primitive proteins and peptides, along with common radioactive elements and heavy metals makes it simpler to extend a 500km siphon into liquid water at the bottom of a gravity well.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by ArmySGT.

I think it well established that the participants use each other as sounding boards more than gathering for a consensus. A bit of criticism is good for the ego. Keeps mine in check anyway.

Man, that's a fact. My friends and peers are always telling me I'm one of the smartest guys they know, then I get on this board and the truth is revealed!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Living room - i.e. expansion of the Empire. Their home planets are overcrowded and they need room to expand.
Plus they get the benefit of a subjugated race to do their menial work for them and a planet full of resources.
Perhaps they even need the Earth for it's water resources, splitting water for hydrogen as a fuel. (Hmm, seems Targan has already evaluated this aspect)

Then again with the possibilities that there are some incredible amounts of wealth in the asteroids and uninhabited planets in just our solar system, perhaps all they need is an outpost for processing those resources before shipping them back home. The Earth becomes a factory planet because it has all the needed resources - slave labour.
Plus it could be an amusing holiday zone for them, hunting humans in the jungles and so on, you know, light entertainment for the aliens but deadly terror for us.

[Targan]

The living room idea is good. The processing of resources would be done most efficiently outside the Earth's gravity well (unless the resources to be processed were sourced from the surface). The slave labour idea has some merit though. Maybe the aliens have some kind of ideological opposition to using robots?

When it comes to resources like hydrogen it all comes down to cost-benefit analysis. Space itself contains lots of hydrogen - its just spread very thinly. But with technology such as an electromagnetic scoop it can be harvested very efficiently. The Bussard ramjet is an excellent example of a theoretical spacecraft design that uses this concept for fuel and propulsion. The Red Dwarf is a Bussard ramjet spacecraft.

In any case if you are talking fuel for fusion reactors, helium-3 is the way to go, not hydrogen. Helium-3 isn't something you can efficiently mine on the surface of a planet such as earth, the best places to get it in our solar system are from the solar wind, from the regolith of zero-atmosphere bodies such as the moon, or from the atmosphere of gas giants.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Targan

The Red Dwarf is a Bussard ramjet spacecraft.

And the Starbugs are made from the same material as Barbie which explains why they never break apart no matter how terrible the crash - true story!

[Webstral]

This is a tough one. Alien invasion has enormous emotional and psychological appeal but a somewhat lesser basis in logic. However, I’ve often said that anyone can be a critic; so I’ll try to offer something supportive.

In human history what is possible and even practical often takes a back seat to psychology. Aliens capable of traveling across interstellar space could manufacture proteins under controlled conditions using sunlight and enclosed spaces made from asteroid materials. We could imagine, though, that the alien presence has one or a very few minds making the decisions. Perhaps the aliens are hive beings. Perhaps they are very few in number. Perhaps the decision-makers are of a rarefied caste, while the majority execute their assignments. With few decision-makers, the alien logic of acquiring resources for the cheapest investment in energy might give way to some sort of alternative thinking.

Years ago, I outlined a screenplay in response to the film version of “Starship Troopers”. In spirit of putting the bottom line up front, the bugs come to Earth to protect humanity from their bug brethren. The bugs are a hive species with an interstellar civilization over 250,000 years old. At some point in the recent past (around the start of the Agricultural Revolution), drones took over the formerly queen-run civilization and started to reshape things in their new vision. Part of the new vision was the extermination of all other sentient life within the boundaries of explored space. (Previously, planets with sentient or near-sentient life were made off-limits to bug development.) The bugs who arrive in Sol are part of a resistance movement in which queens still rule. Having seen the usurper bugs annihilate other sentient life, they have come to help humanity survive the inevitable usurper onslaught.

One of the questions that hangs over the while story is why. The engineers (the friendly bugs) arrive in Sol and swap a host of scientific knowledge and technology for ownership of Mars and a treaty on development of other resources in Sol. Why bother? Why not simply take Earth for themselves? The engineers show that the they have the biological technology to adapt to Earth’s microorganisms. No one can figure this one out. Towards the end of the story, as a usurper fleet approaches a semi-terraformed Mars, the queen herself reveals the answer: humanity may be the intelligence that fulfills God’s promise that good shall triumph over evil.

According to engineer theology, a Universe with laws of physics, matter, and energy yields organized patterns of matter and energy: atoms, stars, heavier atoms, dust, more stars, planets, and so on. A certain part of the organized matter and energy will yield life. Some examples of life will yield multicellular life. Some multicellular life will yield sentience. Some sentience will become transcendent. Some transcendence will reach the next stage in development, and the pattern will continue beyond the ability of the engineers to predict. Ultimately, a purposeful entity with knowledge and power spanning the Universe will emerge as a new God. New God will make decisions about starting a new Universe.

The catch is that none of the future developments are inevitable. Just as there is no guarantee that a given species will make the jump to the next level of development, there is no guarantee that any intentful entity will ever climb to the top of the pyramid. This is where good and evil come in, for the engineers. Good is the force that harnesses energies of all types in favor of orderliness. Evil is the force that diverts energies away from orderliness. Good is not freedom from stress or competition: indeed, the engineers recognize that stress and competition drive evolution and innovation. It’s complex, so I won’t go into it any further. For the engineers, goodness advances a species up the pyramid towards divinity—even as advancement changes a species into something else completely. The engineers accept that they don’t know enough about the process to figure out what it takes for a species at their level to become divine. However, since God created a Universe with many, many possibilities, She must have wanted natural selection to play its part in the formation of a new God. Here’s the tricky bit: if goodness matters, then the moral decisions made by intelligences capable of choosing between good and evil must play a part in God’s pattern. Therefore, those who would serve God’s intent for the Universe must make decisions for good. The broader each level of the pyramid leading to divinity, the greater the chance that the top of the pyramid will reach high enough for there to be a new God. Humanity broadens the mere sentience level of the pyramid; therefore, helping humanity survive the coming genocide is part of executing God’s intent for the Universe.

Phew.

One could imagine alien decisions being made based on factors other than pure logic. Heck, look at how we do things. Maybe the aliens who show up are refugees or criminals.

[dragoon500ly]

[QUOTE=StainlessSteelCynic;38426]Living room - i.e. expansion of the Empire. Their home planets are overcrowded and they need room to expand.
Plus they get the benefit of a subjugated race to do their menial work for them and a planet full of resources.
Perhaps they even need the Earth for it's water resources, splitting water for hydrogen as a fuel. (Hmm, seems Targan has already evaluated this aspect)[QUOTE]

You could also add a second group of Aliens, fighting a war with Earth stuck in the middle and the strategic position of our solar system makes it vital for both sides to control and fight over.

[Rainbow Six]

Maybe they don't need a reason...they would just destroy for the sake of destroying, much like an intergalactic plague of locusts.

Or maybe the aliens might just see it as some form of pest control, much like we might fumigate a house to get rid of bugs.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by weswood

So I'm thinking maybe EMP the world, then wait two months or so and let the weaker humans die out some, and the stronger ones weaken up through starvation. That would have the effects of making the resistance easier on the drop forces and make the invaders look better when they offer food.

I'd say EMP, wait two months, then EMP again just before the invasion to take out everything that had been repaired. If the initial EMP attack is made in such a way as to be mistaken as say a once in a thousand year solar flare (hey, they have interstellar travel, anything's possible) then humans in their stubborness aren't likely to overly harden their systems against a second round.

[Adm.Lee]

Originally Posted by weswood

And just to make it interesting, I'd make the U.S. have strict gun laws. Law abiding citizens would be able to own a shotgun with a barrel of 20" or more, and non-cartridge black powder weapons.

Given that you'd be imposing 2+ months of Twilight War-like conditions on the survivors of the EMPs, I can't see why the survivors wouldn't scarfed up all the guns they could find anyway. This seems like a no-never-mind.

[weswood]

Originally Posted by Adm.Lee

Given that you'd be imposing 2+ months of Twilight War-like conditions on the survivors of the EMPs, I can't see why the survivors wouldn't scarfed up all the guns they could find anyway. This seems like a no-never-mind.

I was thinking that before I finished Forstchen's "One Second After" and primarily Weber's "Out of The Dark" where a couple of the main characters are gun store/range owners and had access to all kinds of weaponry, including a Barrett .50.

[Jason Weiser]

I picked this up for giggles, and it's a fairly good treatise on how 1) Earth could be defended and 2) How aliens might go about it and more importantly, why? It's technical, and science heavy, but a good read. He demolishes Sagan in two sentences (always good for a laugh) and for $6, it's a great time filler. And, I think, VERY germane to our discussion.

http://www.webscription.net/p-1383-alien-invasion.aspx

[Raellus]

I think a preemptive strike makes sense, especially once humanity shows the slightest inclination (and practical capability) to begin colonizing other words.

Other, extraterrestrial civilizations may also have experienced a "Great Singularity" where their A.I.s have surpassed their creators' intelligence and have begun creating more and more intelligent versions of themselves, multiplying exponentially and wiping out all biological life as dangerous and obsolete. Instead of robots we can fight and defeat (think Daleks, Cybermen, Cylons, etc.), these sentient super-A.I.s would come at us with trillions of tiny, flesh consuming nanites. Game over.

Any species that can traverse light years' worth of space will have technologies that make our smartphones and smartbombs look like sticks and stones. We won't stand a chance.

The historical case study of the Spanish Conquistadors' comnquest of the Aztec empire offers some interesting precedents. The Aztecs welcomed them at first, even flirting with the notion that they were gods. Not only did the Spanish have superior technology (guns and steel), they unwittingly brought diseases which decimated the local native populations. It didn't help that the Aztecs fought to capture while the Spanish fought to kill. These technological and cultural difference favored the invader. I can foresee an alien invasion forces advantages being many-fold greater than those of the Conquistadors. Hell, less than 100 mounted Spanish fighters crippled the entire Incan empire of several million!

Invading aliens could also play human nation states or religious/ethnic groups against each other, much like human imperialist/colonialist powers have throughout history. The aliens show up, promise Muslims or Christians or whatever primacy over their rivals and BOOM, humans do most of the dirty work for them.

Bottom line, shows like V and Falling Skies are fun but they offer false hope. If aliens show up and want the earth for themselves, they're going to get it.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Bottom line, shows like V and Falling Skies are fun but they offer false hope. If aliens show up and want the earth for themselves, they're going to get it.

I agree with all your points but there is another factor that could come into play - the psychology and culture of the aliens. We humans have myriad foibles, cultural mores and emotional responses that from the outside looking in would surely make little rational sense. Who knows what bizarre cultural, psychological or emotional imperatives could be operating within aliens' minds. Perhaps they have a code of honour that requires them to fight their enemies face to face? Perhaps they are biologically pre-disposed to taking slaves?

I guess what I'm saying is that if you get creative you can find reasons why you'd get a conventional invasion rather than the (much easier) annihilation from afar.

[Matt Wiser]

Might as well discuss the various alien invasion movies:

Best Alien Invasion movie Ever? War of the Worlds (1953)

Best Alien Invasion movie since 1990: Tie between Independence Day (best overall since War of the Worlds) and Battle: Los Angeles. You get the big picture with the former, and the grunts on the ground in the latter.

Best Alien Invasion on the small screen: V (the original movie and the Final Battle miniseries) Forget both the 1984-5 TV series and the recent remake (since cancelled). Honorable mention to Falling Skies, which got renewed for another season.

And the worst: Skyline (avoid like it's carrying Ebola or the Plague), and Spielberg's War of the Worlds. Even Spielberg admitted that more combat between the military and the invaders should've been depicted, even if it was losing battles.

[Legbreaker]

I quite liked District 9 even though it's not strictly an invasion. Mind you, in three years humankind better watch the hell out!

[Raellus]

Originally Posted by Targan

I agree with all your points but there is another factor that could come into play - the psychology and culture of the aliens. We humans have myriad foibles, cultural mores and emotional responses that from the outside looking in would surely make little rational sense. Who knows what bizarre cultural, psychological or emotional imperatives could be operating within aliens' minds. Perhaps they have a code of honour that requires them to fight their enemies face to face? Perhaps they are biologically pre-disposed to taking slaves?

I guess what I'm saying is that if you get creative you can find reasons why you'd get a conventional invasion rather than the (much easier) anihalation from afar.

That's certainly a possibility. It's definitely a creative way to give humanity a fighting chance.

I'm assuming that the aliens have done some homework and have at least been monitoring our transmissions for some time. They would most likely have some intel on us before coming in hot. That being the case, they should know enough not to make any silly mistakes. If they are capable of mounting an inter-solar system invasion, they've probably done something similar before, if perhaps on a smaller scale. Either way, they're going to be ready for most contingencies and employing far superior technology. Our chances, in such a scenario, would be very, very slim.

That said, perhaps we're looking at this backwards. Perhaps it's humanity that will be conquering alien worlds in a few hundred years. I know that a lot of folks- Gene Rodenberry being a prominent example- believe that we will have evolved beyond our pentiant for violent conquest and imperial/colonial ambitions, but I'm not quite as hopeful as that. If any species is capable of proliferating throughout the galaxy and using force to subdue and/or subjugate opposition, it's Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Since I've been such a downer in this thread, I'll leave you all with the following, somewhat hopeful (depending on your POV) quote from scientist William Harrison:

“Any civilization bent on intensive colonization of other worlds would be driven by an expansive territorial impulse. But such and aggressive nature would be unstable in combination with the immense technical powers required for interstellar travel. Such a civilization would self-destruct long before it could reach the stars.”

Harrison's is one theory put forth to address the Fermi Paradox which posits the question, "If there are so many worlds out there inhabited by intelligent beings, why haven't we been contacted by them yet?"

[Legbreaker]

Perhaps the aliens are fleeing some unknown calamity which rendered their homeworld uninhabitable and the shipload or three in the fleet is all that's left of the entire race? Perhaps they invade simply out of desperation for a habitable planet and their resources are almost expended?

This could explain why they're not busily mining asteroids and conquering other planets - they are travelling in little more than high tech lifeboats to the nearest/only planetary body in range. Could also explain why they make stupid tactical and strategic mistakes - they're predominately civilians and armed with little more than what passes for shotguns and hunting rifles.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Originally Posted by Raellus

That's certainly a possibility. It's definitely a creative way to give humanity a fighting chance.

I'm assuming that the aliens have done some homework and have at least been monitoring our transmissions for some time. They would most likely have some intel on us before coming in hot. That being the case, they should know enough not to make any silly mistakes. If they are capable of mounting an inter-solar system invasion, they've probably done something similar before, if perhaps on a smaller scale. Either way, they're going to be ready for most contingencies and employing far superior technology. Our chances, in such a scenario, would be very, very slim.

That said, perhaps we're looking at this backwards. Perhaps it's humanity that will be conquering alien worlds in a few hundred years. I know that a lot of folks- Gene Rodenberry being a prominent example- believe that we will have evolved beyond our pentiant for violent conquest and imperial/colonial ambitions, but I'm not quite as hopeful as that. If any species is capable of proliferating throughout the galaxy and using force to subdue and/or subjugate opposition, it's Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Since I've been such a downer in this thread, I'll leave you all with the following, somewhat hopeful (depending on your POV) quote from scientist William Harrison:

“Any civilization bent on intensive colonization of other worlds would be driven by an expansive territorial impulse. But such and aggressive nature would be unstable in combination with the immense technical powers required for interstellar travel. Such a civilization would self-destruct long before it could reach the stars.”

Harrison's is one theory put forth to address the Fermi Paradox which posits the question, "If there are so many worlds out there inhabited by intelligent beings, why haven't we been contacted by them yet?"

They are probably sitting on their planet wondering the same thing.

[manunancy]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Bottom line, shows like V and Falling Skies are fun but they offer false hope. If aliens show up and want the earth for themselves, they're going to get it.

That's why I though about using the alien equivalent of a somali warlord and his bunch of khat-nibbling, rusty AK-wielding goons. They're here for the loot (no obliteration strike but ground attack), are very poorly trained and their equipment is a far cry from state of the art...

Note that using a minor sect of fanatics going to convert the heaten at gunpoint, Taliban-style, would make a good scenario too. You can't convert the dead and these guys too are porly trained and equiped.